Pavilion

This week, our hosts discuss the impact of net revenue retention (NRR) and churn on SaaS companies, the challenges/opportunities of transitioning from seat-based to usage-based pricing models, the significance of effective product releases, and more. Want more Topline? Join the <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack">Topline Slack channel</a> to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/blog/tag/topline-podcast">read episode recaps</a>. Also, make sure to secure a ticket for CRO Summit 2024 on June 6th in Boston. <a href= "http://joinpavilion.com/crosummit">Get 20% off your ticket with the code TOPLINE</a>.

E59: NRR vs GRR, usage vs seat-based pricing, and how to announce a product release

<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcoslrivera/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Marcos Rivera</a>, Founder and CEO of Pricing I/O offers an inside look into how he transformed his solo consultancy into a thriving team of SaaS pricing experts. He shares practical insights on pricing strategy, including why companies should revisit pricing regularly, how underpricing affects customer perception, and why adding more features isn't always the solution to retention problems. You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Key Moments:01:50&nbsp;Interview with Marcos Rivera: Pricing Expertise04:44&nbsp;Common Misconceptions About Pricing14:10&nbsp;Solving Business Problems: Talent Acquisition23:05&nbsp;Reflections and Recommendations25:48&nbsp;Closing Remarks and Call to Action

Marcos Rivera, Founder and CEO of Pricing I/O offers an inside look into how he transformed his solo consultancy into a thriving team of SaaS pricing experts. He shares practical insights on pricing strategy, including why companies should revisit pricing regularly, how underpricing affects customer perception, and why adding more features isn't always the solution to retention problems.


SPOTLIGHT: Solving SaaS Pricing Challenges with Pricing I/O Founder Marcos Rivera

The hosts dissect Attio's AI-native CRM disrupting traditional customer management and examine the surprisingly resilient seed/Series B funding landscape despite economic headwinds. Learn how AI is fundamentally changing go-to-market playbooks, enabling tech companies to scale faster than ever before, and which AI sales tools have genuine staying power. Thanks for tuning in! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Key Moments:[02:07]&nbsp;AJ's Boating Adventure[04:05] Sam on Pavilion's CMO Summit and Personal Updates[06:56]&nbsp;Marketing and Revenue Insights[10:36]&nbsp;AI in Business[13:34]&nbsp;Economic Sentiment and Business Strategy[33:02]&nbsp;Hiring in Volatile Times[37:04]&nbsp;Compensation Strategies for Sales Teams[40:55]&nbsp;AI in Sales: A Conversation with an AI SDR Founder[48:06]&nbsp;The Future of AI in Sales and Marketing[01:00:15]&nbsp;Novel Uses of AI[01:08:54]&nbsp;Closing Remarks and Shoutouts

The hosts dissect Attio's AI-native CRM disrupting traditional customer management and examine the surprisingly resilient seed/Series B funding landscape despite economic headwinds. Learn how AI is fundamentally changing go-to-market playbooks, enabling tech companies to scale faster than ever before, and which AI sales tools have genuine staying power.

E105: AI-Native CRMs and Early Stage Resilience: Scaling in Economic Uncertainty

LucidLink CEO and Co-founder Pete Thompson offers an inside look into how he rapidly scaled LucidLink, a company that transforms cloud storage into an accessible, high-performance drive. Pete discusses the critical steps and strategies that propelled the company from its inception in 2016, through struggles to find product-market fit, to achieving breakthrough success during the pandemic. Key Moments:[00:46] —&nbsp;Spotlight on Pete Thompson of LucidLink[01:42] —&nbsp;LucidLink's Innovative Cloud Storage Solution[03:09] —&nbsp;Finding the Ideal Customer and Product Market Fit[08:02] —&nbsp;Challenges and Breakthroughs During the Pandemic[18:21] —&nbsp;Rapid Growth and Fundraising Success[20:42] —&nbsp;Reflections and Future Outlook[23:05] —&nbsp;Closing Remarks and Recommendations[25:15] —&nbsp;Outro and Subscription Information You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

LucidLink CEO and Co-founder Pete Thompson offers an inside look into how he rapidly scaled LucidLink, a company that transforms cloud storage into an accessible, high-performance drive. Pete discusses the critical steps and strategies that propelled the company from its inception in 2016, through struggles to find product-market fit, to achieving breakthrough success during the pandemic.

SPOTLIGHT: Resilience and Growth with LucidLink CEO Pete Thompson

Resilience and Growth: The Journey of LucidLink with Pete Thompson

What should founders and operators prioritize when the market swings 6% in a day?&nbsp;In this episode, Sam, Asad and AJ break down the fallout from historic tariff whiplash, trillion-dollar market swings, and the signals that separate resilient companies from risky bets. They debate:<ul><li>Defensive moves vs. offensive plays: When to cut costs, when to lean into growth, and why “profitable efficiency” is the new mantra.</li><li>Customer psychology in chaos: Why “delay” is the word of the year—and how to combat it.</li><li>The global ripple effect: How geopolitical instability impacts hiring, pricing, and even brand perception for U.S. companies abroad.</li><li>AI, offshoring, and variable costs: Tactics to future-proof your team and margins.</li></ul> Plus, live data from Pavilion’s pulse survey reveals how 56% of companies are already adjusting 2025 forecasts—and why the CEOs argue volatility isn’t going away. Whether you’re debating layoffs, M&amp;A, or just how to sleep at night, this episode is your survival guide." Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?&nbsp; You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Key Moments:[01:19] – Market Volatility &amp; Whiplash[07:07] – Defensive Strategies for Volatile Times[31:36] – Customer Psychology: Fighting "Delay" Mindset[47:01] – People Strategy: Building a Resilient Team[57:52] – Offensive Plays: When to Attack[01:05:41] – Wins &amp; Fails

What should founders and operators prioritize when the market swings 6% in a day? In this episode, Sam Jacobs (Pavilion), Asad Zaman (Sales Talent Agency), and AJ Bruno (QuotaPath) break down the fallout from historic tariff whiplash, trillion-dollar market swings, and the signals that separate resilient companies from risky bets.

E104: Tariffs, Turbulence, and Tough Calls: Operating in an Era of Economic Whiplash

Most SaaS companies don’t fail because they grow too slowly—they fail because they grow&nbsp;too fast&nbsp;and ignore the warning signs. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, the team engages with Michael Dzik, an operating partner at Radian Capital. Mike shares insights from his extensive experience in the B2B technology sector, discussing the challenges and strategies for companies at different stages of their growth. Key topics include identifying growth stall points, the importance of product flexibility, the role of customer discovery, and best practices in pricing and packaging. Mike emphasizes the need for continuous innovation and reveals how Radian Capital supports companies through various investment approaches. Additionally, Mike recommends notable books he is currently reading, such as 'Blood Meridian' and 'The Mosquito'. Key Moments:00:00&nbsp;— Introduction to Top Line Podcast00:45&nbsp;— Spotlight on Michael Dzik02:21&nbsp;— Radian Capital's Investment Strategy06:05&nbsp;— Challenges and Solutions in Vertical SaaS19:36 —&nbsp;Insights on Pricing and Packaging21:59 —&nbsp;Book Recommendations and Closing Remarks You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

I work with founders to grow their enterprise technology start-ups. I have been in the technology industry for my entire career - always in the B2B space. My current role as an Operating Partner (GTM & Growth) is with Radian Capital headquartered in New York City, a $1B AUM growth equity fund focused on enterprise software investing. We try to help founders expand their companies in a durable and profitable manner.

Michael Dzik

Operating Partner | Radian Capital

Most SaaS companies don’t fail because they grow too slowly—they fail because they grow too fast and ignore the warning signs. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, the team engages with Michael Dzik, an operating partner at Radian Capital. Mike shares insights from his extensive experience in the B2B technology sector, discussing the challenges and strategies for companies at different stages of their growth. Key topics include identifying growth stall points, the importance of product flexibility, the role of customer discovery, and best practices in pricing and packaging. Mike emphasizes the need for continuous innovation and reveals how Radian Capital supports companies through various investment approaches. Additionally, Mike recommends notable books he is currently reading, such as 'Blood Meridian' and 'The Mosquito'.

SPOTLIGHT: Optimizing Growth in B2B Tech with Mike Dzik

SPOTLIGHT: Optimizing Growth in B2B Tech with Radian Capital's Mike Dzik

In this episode, Sam, Asad, and AJ sit down with <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/benkus/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ben Kus</a>, Chief Technology Officer at Box, to unpack how AI is reshaping enterprise tech—from the seismic shift to cloud-native infrastructure to the rise of AI agents that collaborate across platforms. We dive into the realities of leading through volatility, why AI adoption is moving faster than past platform shifts, and how enterprises can navigate the “FOMO” of generative AI without sacrificing trust. Plus, Ben’s take on the future of software engineering, the myth of “non-technical founders,” and the books that keep him thinking ahead. Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?&nbsp; You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Key Moments:[01:14] – Meet Ben Kus: Box’s AI Visionary[05:26] – Leading Through Volatility: COVID, ZIRP, and AI’s Sudden Rise[11:57] – Why AI Adoption Is Moving Faster Than Cloud or Mobile[17:05] – Data Security in the Age of AI: Box’s Guardrails[24:17] – AI Agents: The Next Frontier (or Hype)?[31:41] – Open vs. Walled Gardens: The Future of Enterprise Platforms[38:45] – Is Software Engineering Still a Valuable Skill?[46:33] – Stagnation, Patience, and the Long Game

Experienced technology leader with a demonstrated history of driving innovation across product and engineering at companies of all sizes.

Ben Kus

CTO, Box

In this episode, Sam, Asad, and AJ sit down with Ben Kus, Chief Technology Officer at Box, to unpack how AI is reshaping enterprise tech—from the seismic shift to cloud-native infrastructure to the rise of AI agents that collaborate across platforms. We dive into the realities of leading through volatility, why AI adoption is moving faster than past platform shifts, and how enterprises can navigate the “FOMO” of generative AI without sacrificing trust. Plus, Ben’s take on the future of software engineering, the myth of “non-technical founders,” and the books that keep him thinking ahead.

E103: AI Agents and the Future of Enterprise Tech with Box CTO Ben Kus

AI Agents and the Future of Enterprise Tech with Box CTO Ben Kus

The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in every week to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.

Pavilion

E59: NRR vs GRR, usage vs seat-based pricing, and how to announce a product release

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