Pavilion

Apollo co-founder and CEO Tim Zheng reveals the pivot that rescued his company from a 2:1 CAC payback ratio. This episode breaks down how Apollo transformed from a struggling $10K ACV sales-led model to $150M+ ARR by reducing prices to $99/mo and going all in on PLG. Tim dives into why over 50% of Apollo's code is now written by AI, the challenge of finding executives who can scale across multiple growth stages, and how Apollo plans to break through the billion-dollar barrier that has proven elusive for many go-to-market tech companies. Don’t miss GTM2025 — the only B2B tech conference exclusively for GTM executives. Elevate your 2026 strategy and join us from September 23 to 25 in Washington, D.C. <a href="https://attendgtm.com/register?promo=TOPLINE" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Use code TOPLINE for 10% off your GA ticket.</a> Stay ahead with the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends with Topline Newsletter by Asad Zaman. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe today</a>. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune in to The Revenue Leadership Podcast</a> every Wednesday, where host Kyle Norton talks with real revenue operators and dives deep into what it takes to succeed as a modern revenue leader. You’re invited!<a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Tim Zheng

Founder & CEO at Apollo

Apollo co-founder and CEO Tim Zheng reveals the pivot that rescued his company from a 2:1 CAC payback ratio. This episode breaks down how Apollo transformed from a struggling $10K ACV sales-led model to $150M+ ARR by reducing prices to $99 and going product-led. 

Tim dives into why over 50% of Apollo's code is now written by AI, the challenge of finding executives who can scale across multiple growth stages, and how Apollo plans to break through the billion-dollar barrier that has proven elusive for many go-to-market tech companies.

E114: How Apollo Plans to Grow From $150M to $1B+ in ARR

What happens when a seasoned GTM leader becomes CEO for the first time and steps into a founder-led company with a global team? In this episode, Eric Anderson, CEO of Walnut, shares what it’s really like to take over a business built by someone else. He talks with AJ Bruno about building trust across time zones, rebuilding the go-to-market motion, and making bold decisions while honoring legacy culture. From listening tours to tough calls on pricing and segmentation, Eric opens up about the challenges and wins of his first six months in the role. Thanks for tuning in! New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday and Thursday. Don’t miss GTM2025 — the only B2B tech conference exclusively for GTM executives. Elevate your 2026 strategy and join us from September 23 to 25 in Washington, D.C. <a href="https://attendgtm.com/register?promo=TOPLINE" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Use code TOPLINE for 10% off your GA ticket.</a> Stay ahead with the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends with Topline Newsletter by Asad Zaman. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe today</a>. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune in to The Revenue Leadership Podcast</a> every Wednesday, where host Kyle Norton talks with real revenue operators and dives deep into what it takes to succeed as a modern revenue leader. You’re invited!<a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! Key chapters:(00:00) - Introduction to Topline and Eric Anderson(02:30) - Eric's Journey to CEO at Walnut(06:49) - Navigating Cultural Differences in Leadership(09:11) - Understanding Board Dynamics as a CEO(11:36) - Making Bold Decisions as a First-Time CEO(15:00) - Strategic Focus and Market Positioning(16:52) - Looking Ahead: Future Plans for Walnut

Eric Anderson, CEO of Walnut, shares what it’s really like to take over a business built by someone else.

SPOTLIGHT: What It Takes to Step into the CEO Role with Eric Anderson of Walnut

What It Takes to Step into the CEO Role with Eric Anderson of Walnut

We explore how ChatGPT’s new integration capabilities are poised to turn CRMs like Salesforce and HubSpot into “just another database.” This episode breaks down what it means when the interaction and analysis layers move outside the system of record—and what that means for GTM teams. The conversation also touches on the hallucination problem in LLMs, how leaders are using AI in real workflows, and why a growing number of founders are embracing an intense, seven-day-a-week work culture. Thanks for tuning in! New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday and Thursday. Don’t miss GTM2025 — the only B2B tech conference exclusively for GTM executives. Elevate your 2026 strategy and join us from September 23 to 25 in Washington, D.C. <a href="https://attendgtm.com/register?promo=TOPLINE" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Use code TOPLINE for 10% off your GA ticket.</a> Stay ahead with the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends with Topline Newsletter by Asad Zaman. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe today</a>. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune in to The Revenue Leadership Podcast</a> every Wednesday, where host Kyle Norton talks with real revenue operators and dives deep into what it takes to succeed as a modern revenue leader. You’re invited!<a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

We explore how ChatGPT’s new integration capabilities are poised to turn CRMs like Salesforce and HubSpot into “just another database.” This episode breaks down what it means when the interaction and analysis layers move outside the system of record—and what that means for GTM teams. The conversation also touches on the hallucination problem in LLMs, how leaders are using AI in real workflows, and why a growing number of founders are embracing an intense, seven-day-a-week work culture.


E113: Are CRMs Becoming Just Another Database for AI?

CRMs Becoming Just Another Database for AI?

AI is changing how companies build teams and entry-level roles may not survive the shift. In this episode, Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman dig into how automation is reshaping the job market, what it means for new grads, and why hiring managers need to rethink what “junior talent” looks like. From the rise of AI-native workers to the disappearance of traditional training grounds, this conversation explores the real impact of AI on the future of work. Thanks for tuning in! New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday and Thursday. Don’t miss GTM2025 — the only B2B tech conference exclusively for GTM executives. Elevate your 2026 strategy and join us from September 23 to 25 in Washington, D.C. <a href="https://attendgtm.com/register?promo=TOPLINE" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Use code TOPLINE for 10% off your GA ticket.</a> Stay ahead with the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends with Topline Newsletter by Asad Zaman. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe today</a>. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune in to The Revenue Leadership Podcast</a> every Wednesday, where host Kyle Norton talks with real revenue operators and dives deep into what it takes to succeed as a modern revenue leader. You’re invited!<a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! Key Moments:(00:00) Introduction(02:55) The Impact of AI on Employment(06:05) AI's Role in Go-to-Market Strategies(09:00) The Future of Entry-Level Jobs(11:56) Navigating the AI Landscape(14:57) The Evolution of Job Roles in the Age of AI(18:11) The Balance of Experience and AI(20:56) The Human Element in AI Integration(23:54) Conclusion and Reflections on AI's Future(30:12) The Impact of AI on Employment(32:08) Historical Perspectives on Technology and Abundance(34:41) The Need for Integrated Philosophies(36:23) Health and Well-being in a Changing World(38:46) Inequality and Economic Displacement(41:33) The Future of Sales Roles in a Tech-Driven Market(45:31) Adapting to AI: Challenges and Opportunities(51:36) Compensation Trends in a Changing Landscape(56:16) Navigating New Job Opportunities in Tech

E112: Is AI the End of Entry Level Roles?

Eric Simons spent seven years building toward a vision that almost never saw the light of day. After countless iterations, near-misses, and growing pressure from his board to shut the company down, he and his cofounder made one final bet—and that bet became Bolt. In just four months, Bolt skyrocketed to $40 million in ARR, becoming one of the fastest-growing SaaS products in recent memory. In this episode, Eric joins the Topline team to share the full story. He explains how years of quiet technical innovation finally met a market ready for transformation, how training for an Ironman helped him build the resilience to survive the lows, and why a disciplined, capital-efficient mindset became his secret weapon through both drought and breakout. Thanks for tuning in! New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday and Thursday. Join the revenue leaders redefining growth at Pavilion's CRO Summit 2025, which will be held on June 3rd at the Denver Art Museum.<a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/cro-summit" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> Register today</a>. Stay ahead with the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends with Topline Newsletter by Asad Zaman. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe today</a>. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune in to The Revenue Leadership Podcast</a> every Wednesday, where host Kyle Norton talks with real revenue operators and dives deep into what it takes to succeed as a modern revenue leader. You’re invited!<a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! Key chapters:(00:00) - Introduction(01:12) - Eric Simons and the Rise of Bolt(05:42) - The Importance of Pivots in Startups(09:25) - Navigating Product Market Fit and Competition(18:25) - Maintaining Mental Resilience as an Entrepreneur(24:31) - Team Management Through Uncertainty(28:50) - The Challenges of Rapid Growth and Scaling(35:42) - Rapid Growth in the AI Era(38:01) - Bootstrapping and Calculated Bets(41:44) - Navigating Investor Pressure(44:55) - Market Signals and Product-Market Fit(49:32) - The Role of Social Media in Growth(54:41) - Sustainable Growth and Retention Strategies(01:00:12) - Learning from Competition(01:02:39) - Future Vision and Market Positioning

Eric Simons spent seven years building toward a vision that almost never saw the light of day. After countless iterations, near-misses, and growing pressure from his board to shut the company down, he and his cofounder made one final bet—and that bet became Bolt. In just four months, Bolt skyrocketed to $40 million in ARR, becoming one of the fastest-growing SaaS products in recent memory.

In this episode, Eric joins the Topline team to share the full story. He explains how years of quiet technical innovation finally met a market ready for transformation, how training for an Ironman helped him build the resilience to survive the lows, and why a disciplined, capital-efficient mindset became his secret weapon through both drought and breakout.


E111: How Bolt Hit $40M in Four Months and Why It Took Eric Simons Seven Years to Get There

How Bolt Hit $40M in Four Months and Why It Took Eric Simons Seven Years to Get There

In this episode, Yext CEO Michael Walrath joins Sam, Asad, and AJ to talk about what comes after Google. With over two decades of experience leading and investing in internet businesses—including Right Media and Moat—Michael unpacks how AI is reshaping the way we search, discover, and interact with information online. He explains why the old rules of SEO no longer apply, how structured data and digital presence are becoming mission-critical, and what brands need to do now to stay visible in an AI-first world. Michael also shares candid insights on running a public company through market whiplash, how he thinks about signal vs. noise when allocating capital, and why he’s choosing profitability over prediction. Thanks for tuning in!Join the revenue leaders redefining growth at Pavilion's CRO Summit 2025, which will be held on June 3rd at the Denver Art Museum.<a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/cro-summit" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> Register today</a>. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

In this episode, Yext CEO Michael Walrath joins Sam, Asad, and AJ to talk about what comes after Google. With over two decades of experience leading and investing in internet businesses—including Right Media and Moat—Michael unpacks how AI is reshaping the way we search, discover, and interact with information online.

He explains why the old rules of SEO no longer apply, how structured data and digital presence are becoming mission-critical, and what brands need to do now to stay visible in an AI-first world. Michael also shares candid insights on running a public company through market whiplash, how he thinks about signal vs. noise when allocating capital, and why he’s choosing profitability over prediction.

E110: How CEO Michael Walrath is building Yext for a world beyond Google

Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman confront the emotional weight and operational strain of leading through sustained GTM volatility. They reflect on the mental health toll of missed quarters, the pressure to perform under investor scrutiny, and the fine line between perseverance and sunk-cost thinking. The trio explores how founders can navigate uncertain markets with clear contingency planning, why Pavilion is betting big on small peer groups to improve retention, and what the recent wave of strategic M&amp;A reveals about the shifting tech landscape. Thanks for tuning in! Join the revenue leaders redefining growth at Pavilion's CRO Summit 2025, which will be held on June 3rd at the Denver Art Museum. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/cro-summit" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Register today</a>. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Key Moments:(00:00) Introduction and Reflections on Past Guests(02:59) The Impact of AI on Education(05:56) Market Pulse Check and Economic Outlook(08:58) Navigating Challenges as Founders(11:55) Mental Health and Resilience in Business(15:04) Investor Pressures and Market Dynamics(17:48) The Importance of Adaptability in Entrepreneurship(20:59) Learning from Failure and Moving Forward(33:53) Revenue Growth and Business Optionality(34:56) Leadership Accountability and Personal Growth(36:24) Compassionate Leadership in Business(38:01) Optimism vs. Realism in Business(39:31) Market Trends and Business Strategy(42:04) Building Community and Crafting Business Assets(43:41) Market Dependency and Business Performance(46:47) The Importance of Team Building(47:15) M&amp;A Activity and Market Dynamics

Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman confront the emotional weight and operational strain of leading through sustained GTM volatility. They reflect on the mental health toll of missed quarters, the pressure to perform under investor scrutiny, and the fine line between perseverance and sunk-cost thinking. The trio explores how founders can navigate uncertain markets with clear contingency planning, why Pavilion is betting big on small peer groups to improve retention, and what the recent wave of strategic M&amp;A reveals about the shifting tech landscape.

E109: Burnout, Breakthroughs & the New Reality of GTM Leadership

E109: Burnout, Breakdowns & the Will to Keep Building

The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in every week to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.

Pavilion

E114: How Apollo Plans to Grow From $150M to $1B+ in ARR

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Tim Zheng

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