Going for VITO's Big Noes

Darryl: How are you doing, folks? It's another episode here. Do you hear that? Did you hear that voice? How are you doing, folks? Oh my gosh. You know what that is? That's the voice of somebody whose been talking way too much, way too often. See, clearly, clearly that's a sign that I'm in management. I don't actually do anything, I just talk nonstop. Welcome, folks, to another episode of the Inside Inside Sales Show, the only show out there that gives actionable, practical, pragmatic advice where we have fun, and we do it in about 30 minutes or less. How have you guys been? How's your week? I had a number of people say to me, recently, " Darryl, how are you doing?" You get that occasionally, but I've had a number of people say this to me. Which says I'm giving off, I have to assume, an angry vibe. That's my guess, an angry vibe. Do you ever do that? Do you ever give off an angry vibe? Your loved ones in your life, maybe you've got kids, maybe you've got pets, they know the vibe and they just steer away from you. Apparently, I'm giving off an angry vibe, or an I'm frustrated vibe, which is true. One of the biggest challenges that we have in this whole sales profession, whether you're in management or you're on the phones, on social, on email, you're SMSing, you're doing direct mails, you're doing handcrafted letters, you're a revenue machine, is people. It's people. I'm not making this up, it's people. I can sell, you can sell, we know what to do when it comes to selling. There's 1000 experts out there, they tell us, they spell it out for us. " This is how you open a call, this is how you do discovery, this is how you do negotiation, this is how you set value before you get to the pricing part. So if you do the value establishment early on, then you avoid the whole negotiation kerfuffle," et cetera. It's all out there. We know what best practice is, we know email templates, we know how to write an email. Do I want to go AIDA, do I want to go inaudible, do I want to go PAZ, do I want to go TTTT, whatever. I don't know. We know it all, right? But, the challenging part is people. It's no different. That's why I probably have my angry vibe these days, is because I get frustrated with certain people who, they don't necessarily do what they've committed to do. Do you ever run into that? And, it can be exasperating. People ask me, " Darryl, what's it like to be a CRO?" I'll say to them, " I am a professional therapist and counselor." But if I do my job right, that means all the sales people on my team are free to avoid interference and all that stuff, because I'm running interference to block and protect them. And often, they never know. One of the things I would ask you is, if you're a sales rep, go to your boss and ask them this simple question. How much interference do you run so that I can be sheltered and do my daily job? I bet you, you'll be shocked at the answer and it'll give you a new respect for your boss. They're not as much of an asshole as you think they or, or a stick in the mud, or so focused on process. Everything they do is actually to make you a better sales rep. It was so funny, because I talk about people and how they can be so challenging, but there's a side of me inside that's like, " You're hurt, and you're angry, and you're upset and you're insecure and you're second guessing. And, what if they don't like me?" I got a LinkedIn connection require the other day. It was phenomenal. It was like, " Dude, I've been following your content for a long time, I love it. You're a badass!" Whenever someone calls you a badass that's always cool, right? " You're a badass." What that individual doesn't know was that every time I'm badass, every time I take on maybe it's a very notable person out there with a big following and they say something and I have a different point of view than they have and I say, " I'm not sure I agree and I think this is why." And then, I run the risk of their whole community attacking me, or even that highly profiled trainer, rockstar, influencer saying, " Bro, you're stupid. Go away. Just go away, you're annoying. Go away." It scares me. So, where do I get the courage to do that? You see, that's the thing. When you're prospecting, it's all about courage. It's all about courage. It's all believing in yourself, your skills, your abilities, what you have to offer. It's believing that you might have a little bit of rejection. You might push your comfort level when maybe you're doing something that you know tactically is correct, but it's not what you would normally do. It's having the mindset to be able to overcome that. I'll give you an example. One of the biggest pushbacks I get on my team, over and over again... And they're listening to this, so right now they're going to feel real guilty or they're going to laugh and go, " Yeah, that's true." I tell them, " You need to identify the VITO. Vito, V- I- T- O, the very important top officer." Selling to VITO, look it up. " Once you identify them, you actually then get a referral down because the VITO's going to be too busy for you." Get a referral down, you work the next level down, you sell them. And from that point on, what you should be doing is you should be copying VITO on any recap emails, next steps, et cetera, so you're keeping them in the loop. Even though they're not giving you time, they've referred you down. Two things happen. A, one of my team says, " Well, I can't do that because that's disrespectful to the person I'm talking to. It looks like I'm actually selling to VITO and to them." Or, they skip the first part, they don't go to VITO, they go one level down. And then I tell them to copy VITO, to keep them in the loop, and they go, " Well, I can't do that either because VITO doesn't know who I am. And again, I'm being disrespectful." When we're pushy and bossy like that, that's the right way to sell but that's scary as hell. All right, that's my preamble. Can you relate? Who's the right person? Talk to me, folks. Who's the right person for this right now? You know it, I know it. She's been on the show before. Remember, right now we're highlighting all the people that I think are fricking incredible that you may not be intimately familiar with their work. Maybe they're not on LinkedIn 42, 000 times a day, as an example. Why? Because they're doing business. That's my next guest. She's going to help us out with this very scenario. She's a rockstar. I respect her immensely. I watched her live for the first time, on stage at Outbound, her and Richard Fenton. They're the authors of the legendary book for the past couple decades if I'm right, don't quote me on that one, give or take, Go For No. This is Andrea Waltz. Andrea, welcome back to the show. How are you doing?

Andrea Waltz: Darryl, I'm doing good. I have to tell you, as you were speaking, I had to Google my favorite quote from one of my favorite movies of all time, Jerry Maguire. This is what you reminded me of, this quote where Jerry is talking to the football player guy, I can't remember his name.

Darryl: Cube Gooding, Jr. Yeah.

Andrea Waltz: Yes. In the bathroom and he says, " You don't know what it's like to be me, out here for you. It is an up- at- dawn, pride swallowing siege that I will never fully tell you about." That's my favorite line, because I say that to Richard all the time, and that's what I heard you saying that you go through for your people.

Darryl: It's true. Every manager does. Let's just say nine out of 10 do at least, let's go with that one. And, they never know and that's okay, they don't need to know. That's my job, they have their job. If we do our jobs, life is grand. But, it can suck the soul out of you, exactly as the movie. I love that quote. I'm going to get that quote, maybe I'm going to put it on my wall, because it's incredible. But, it's true, Andy. My reps will tell me on a regular basis, " I don't want to copy VITO, it scares me. It's rude. It's inappropriate. I don't think it's right." The best line is this. " Yes, I understand that you think that works in that industry, but in my industry, it doesn't." So Andrea, between you and I, and team if you're listening, just close your ears for a second, I think that's a lot of bull cocky. I think they're just afraid to do it. What's your experience been? And for those that don't know, go right now, follow Andrea on LinkedIn because she's amazing, but go over to Amazon and look up her book Go For No, that she and Richard Fenton wrote. It has been a bestseller for forever. The whole premise around is it's a great approach to how to handle, for lack of a better word, rejection. And instead of going for yeses when you're dialing and, " Sure, I'll take your call," you're actually going for now and you're gamifying the whole process around how to handle rejection. So much so, that if they give you a no, you're excited because that's actually what you wanted. You didn't want a yes, you wanted a no. And then, that's the process it changes the whole dynamic of prospecting. I have probably done a complete disservice to your book and your craft, Andrea. But there you go, folks, read it, it's awesome. But, talk to me. What would you say to my team when they give me that answer? And, what do you think is the real reason why they don't do it?

Andrea Waltz: My first response would be, " Okay, how many times has VITO called you, or emailed you, to complain about how amazingly inappropriate and rude you are?" If that number has exceeded, I don't know, 50 times, 100 times, then fine, they're right and I think that you should make an exception for that person. But, until that happens, and I'm guessing that really hasn't ever happened, maybe one or two times, they haven't reached the threshold. They're not out there doing exactly what you suggest. Yeah, you've got to be assertive. I'm looking at my own buying patterns as of late, because Richard and I are in the process, and it's a very, very painful process by the way, of buying a house and dealing with all of these different providers. I am rewarding salespeople, like for homeowners insurance, I'm getting quotes for movers and I'm getting all these things, and I am rewarding people that hustle. I am rewarding people who get back to me in a timely manner, who are on top of it, who are assertive. I don't need to go spend my time finding people and wondering what's going on with the process, I want people who are out there and responsive. I think you are exactly right. What does VITO want? They want somebody whose take charge, who they can look to and go, " Oh, this thing, which is not my top priority, maybe it's number 28 on the list, but it's still being handled by somebody who's proactive. I see that things are happening and I'm being kept in the loop. That's awesome." I think they want that first. I think they don't want to have to deal with this issue. They want somebody to take control. We need to have the courage to do that. Yeah, if you get a lot of pushback, fabulous, but that's not happening.

Darryl: It's not happening. To your point, test number one, have you done it to see if you're getting VITO yelling at you, that's test number one. I love it. I love your point, too. It sounds stupid, but did you hear what Andrea just said? " Okay, if you've got some negative feedback 50 plus times, then maybe it's not a good idea." She didn't say once, or twice or three times. She said on an overwhelming data sample set, you got negative feedback, you shouldn't do that. Otherwise, anything less than that, you're projecting your own biases. That's what I think you're own doing, you're projecting your own biases. Would you agree with that or not?

Andrea Waltz: Absolutely. I was just talking to Catherine Brown, the author of How Good Humans Sell. It's also a great book. She talks about confirmation bias, and how we have this underlying program running in our minds so we look for that stuff, and then we project it. Yeah, you have to have... Listen, the same data sample size applies with persistence. " Oh, I can't follow up with this person more than seven times, because that one time that person, that one time say it's too much, stop following up with me. It's a no, leave me alone." We all know that persistence pays so yes, you're going to, every now and then, have pushback. But really, how many times do we get that? There's always one horror story and that horror story... This is perfect, this time of year. That horror story comes out and replays in people's minds like a bad movie, over, and over and over again. And they're thinking, " That was a horrible time that that person yelled at me, or I got that bad email and I don't want that to ever happen again." It just replays and that's what stops us.

Darryl: I want to explore how to fix that. But before I do, I want to explore one more excuse I'll get. I'll get this. I'll get the old, " I didn't go to VITO, Darryl. I am one level down. I'm with the right person, they are the champion. They're going to champion it through. And because I didn't go to VITO, I don't want to copy VITO now because VITO's going to... Well, VITO may not know who the hell I am or what this is about." That's the first part, which you all know as I'm saying this, you should have gone to VITO first and you've got yourself in this situation. Okay, just so we're clear on that. And if you didn't go to VITO first, there's nothing stopping you from going to VITO now. Separate phone call, " Hey, I was just talking to Mary. Mary tells me you have this problem. I'm talking to Mary, but I wanted to reach out to you to introduce myself and just try to get a better understanding from your position in the hierarchy. Clearly, Mary has one point of view, maybe you can give me a bigger picture." Right? Boom. That's totally legit, nothing rude about what I just said. And now, VITO's in the loop. And now, when you follow up with Mary, you can copy VITO. But many of you don't do that, because you're afraid of VITO. Okay, but going back, they're talking with the champion, in this case Mary. They didn't talk to VITO. And, even if they had talked to VITO, they still don't want to copy them because they don't want to upset Mary. They're not afraid of copying VITO, which was our first scenario, they don't want to upset Mary. So what do you say to that? Am I still projecting, is this still confirmation bias? Or, is it legit?

Andrea Waltz: Well, I think you're talking about something that is underlying every sale for every salesperson. This is something that requires a little bit more detachment, it requires a little bit of refocusing, and that is this fear of loss. It is projection like, " I don't want to do anything that would accidentally upset anyone." But if the process works, and this is the process, then you've got to do it enough to prove that either it doesn't work or do it and let the chips fall where they may. Detach from all of these preconceived notions that that's what's going to happen. So we're running, really, with this program of fear of loss, that's what's driving those decisions. That's what I see, time and time again, it's fear of losing the sale, fear of getting a no, fear of having somebody get upset, call us pushy, call us whatever. But, you've got to look at the end game. What is the end game? I think a lot of salespeople mistakenly believe that these people care more than they do. I think they're reading a little bit too much into the fact that Mary is going to freak out and get all upset. I don't think she's that bought in, even when you copy VITO. That's just my take on it.

Darryl: All right, so we have fear of loss, we have a little bit of confirmation bias or projection taking place. Or, any combination thereof. So folks, if you're listening so far, I'm betting you connect, you nodded your head, I bet you might have even slightly grinned a little bit, in that self- deprecating, " Oh yeah, I can relate to that," in some of the stuff we've already said here. That's the set up, we now know the symptoms. What's the cure, Andrea? What's the cure to this?

Andrea Waltz: Well, interestingly, a lot of people think that the cure is exactly knowing the perfect thing to say, the perfect thing to do. This is really a mindset issue, but it's also a strategic issue at the same time. One of the things that I see is when people have a fear of loss, they're usually not working on enough deals and they don't have enough deals in the pipeline. So what happens is this paranoia of exactly how perfectly this has to go and this fear of loss comes into play, because they're working on too few deals. So that's number one, it's a bigger picture issue.

Darryl: Okay. I'm smiling because I know, I know that many reps that I've dealt with over the years, that was exactly the issue. They knew their pipeline sucked. I've been there, my pipeline has sucked. Jeb was on stage at Outbound talking about how pipe is life, telling a story about how he attended to a very high profile client that he closed, over several months because no one else was around. And then, all of a sudden he had no pipe, and then he had to bust his pump to get the pipe up, and there was a fear of losing that pipe and that affected how he sold. This is, at all levels of success, everybody has that. So step number one is, you're right, the root cause... It's not always your mommy or your daddy, sometimes the root cause is you just don't have a big enough pipeline. All right, what else?

Andrea Waltz: Yeah. I think that's a huge one. That is something that can be solved, can't be solved overnight, but you have tremendous more freedom. By the way, Darryl, I've had this as an issue myself. I remember when Richard and I were speaking for retail companies, and we were calling on them and doing really well. But then we got into more account servicing, so we were in delivery mode. The phone was still ringing, though, and I was still booking things. Things were just falling into my lap. And then, before we know it, I looked one day and realized that I literally had one person in my pipeline. I decided, " Well, I'm going to jump on the phone and get this thing closed," and I did. I felt so great, I was so lucky, I was so relieved and I was like, " Oh, I'll never let that happen." And then, do you know what happened that very day?

Darryl: What?

Andrea Waltz: She called me back and canceled because, last minute, the VP came in and was like, " You just did what? You signed these people? No, no, no, I'm not spending any money, we're not doing this." So she literally called me back, after we had gone to lunch with a friend and bought, because we were celebrating.

Darryl: Yeah, yeah.

Andrea Waltz: She called, canceled. Literally there I was, having fulfilled all of this work but now, with completely empty pipeline and just starting from square one. Not only was I completely desperate for that deal, so I was freaked about exactly how I was with her and that it went well. I was like, " Oh, I was so lucky." That was only one person, though. I was still in deep trouble. Even losing that deal, that one deal didn't save us, we were in deep trouble. It was like starting from scratch, it was a horrible feeling. That was the one side. But the other side is, when you are struggling like that, then everything that you do comes from a place of fear. Everything is anxiety, everything is, " I have to do the right thing, I can't upset anybody." And then, when you operate like that, you're constantly second guessing on what you can and can't do, and say, and it makes ever taking a chance become really stressful. But to me, sales is all about taking risks, it's all about taking chances. I have called people and yeah, I haven't done the most ethical things in terms of trying to get the name of a prospect. Yeah I've called and said, " I'm trying to reach Nancy Smith, vice president of training." " Nancy Smith? She's not a vice president of training." I said, " Oh, I'm sorry, then I must have the name wrong." " Well, it's Ann." " Of course it's Ann! Yeah, I had the names crossed on my list. No problem." Whatever it takes to get a name, I've done it. We sometimes have to take some risks, and if it feels really risky to somebody, like above and beyond risk, then it comes back to the pipeline. The pipeline is a huge issue, but that is just one piece. The second piece is it comes back to just having the courage to take more chances. You get the freedom to take more chances when you have a full pipeline. You also get the freedom to take more chances when you have a great boss, like yourself. Now, some people are in a really tough position because they can't get a no, they can't fail, they're terrified of getting a rejection. But, if you're going after big potential yeses, you're also going to have to be willing to hear big potential nos. Sometimes, that comes with VITO emailing you back going, " Why the hell are you copying me on this stuff?" Is that the worst thing that can happen? I don't think so. We've got to get over that and that is just a mental mindset hurdle. Darryl, a lot of that comes from leadership, I have to say. Even though I know this is not a leadership podcast, it's enlightened leaders that give people permission to do those kinds of things.

Darryl: It's funny you say that because I was going to go there and say a couple things. Yes, there are bad leaders out there. I've had this conversation a few times the last couple days. Reps need to understand that you can't paint the entire management, sales leadership industry over your experience with one or two bad apples. Just like you don't want us to say, " Every sales rep's bad because one or two sales reps take shortcuts, use bots and just spam people nonstop." You have to understand that, so context is everything. Where was I going to go with this? What I would say to you is this, if you're experiencing with Andrea's talking about, there's two things you need to do. One, is you need to communicate. You need to talk to your manager, as you're planning the deal. " I need to go after VITO but I'm a little nervous and this is why. What's the best way to do it? What do you think?" And it's a big deal, maybe Andrea's situation's a bigger deal, " So I'm going to go after all these different people. If I get one in five, I'm feeling really, really good. Is that reasonable?" In other words, you're strategizing together so the manager's bought into your strategy. That way, when you lose four of those five, well that was the plan all along. If I get that one deal, boom, I've hit my number for the quarter and life is grand, whatever it might be. The whole point is that open, constant communication. Too many reps are actually repressing this because they don't want to share what they perceive is bad news. And then, that gives you that anxiety and then you get that fear of loss, exactly what Andrea talked about. The silly thing is your manager already knows you're going to lose some, they already know you're going to make mistakes. That's why we have coaching and training, that's why we have systems in place. That's why we say, " Go read Go For No," one of the best fricking bestselling books out there on sale, it's on Amazon. That's why we do it. The second thing you need to understand is this. Your manager, and if not your manager, then you can own this yourself, have tools. One of the best things, the most basic things we have... You're going to VITO and VITO's going to be scary, and they might or might not take your call, but you've got to do it, exactly as Andrea was talking about. Well, what should you do? You do your pre- call planner. Why would they take this call? Where do they live? Who are they, again? Let's do some background research on them. Let's be relevant. Let's have some clearly defined takeaways that are your objectives behind this call. You can communicate that in advance when you're scheduling the appointment, if you want to. " This is the purpose of my call, this is how long it'll take," et cetera. Be very, very, very, very specific and personal. Not templated, not bot- like. If you do that, then a lot of your anxiety goes away because you know what, you've got a plan. It's as simple as that. The tools are there, we just forget to use them. That is often the case. Your sales leader knows you're not going to bat 1000, they know that. It's all good. Andrea, if you were giving advice to a rep today that was listening to this podcast, where would you suggest they start to try to remedy some of this apprehension?

Andrea Waltz: Right. As weird as this sounds, I think they need to start with giving themselves permission to fail. You have to give yourself permission... There's such a yes culture in sales, and it should be. The subtitle of our book, Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There. Yes is the destination, but there is a yes culture that can sometimes be toxic. We all celebrate the wins, we celebrate the deals. Nobody celebrates the nos. No is still seen as something shameful, and embarrassing and you lost the deal. I fully believe in doing sales autopsies. There was a guy out there, who used to have a thing. It was called Sales Autopsy and it was looking at what were all the things that went wrong. I think that can be really, really instructive and really helpful. Richard and I do that all the time with deals, with events that we do where things go right and things go wrong. We love looking back and seeing what are the lessons. There's this really toxic culture, Darryl. I think it's still out there. It's great that yes is so important, but we have to... I think for a rep listening to this, you have to give yourself permission to hear no and that no can take a lot of different forms. That no could be VITO calling you back, leaving you a message. That no could be completely getting no response. That no could be maybe a nasty email. That no could be a big no of you losing the deal. The no could be your boss mad at you, your prospect mad at you. There's all these nos. But, you have to give yourself permission to fail so that a couple things can happen. One, I mentioned it earlier, so that you have the chance to win those bigger deals. Easy yeses produce little successes. That's just the reality. If you want to go after big yeses, you have to be willing to face the big nos, whatever those are, and take bigger risks. You have to give yourself permission to fail. Give yourself permission to hear no more often, throughout the process. If you're making up stories in your head about what Mary's going to do, what VITO's going to think, what they're both going to say, these are just protections and assumptions that we make, so that we don't have to take action and we don't have to face that no. So number one, permission to fail. And, Darryl, I like what you said about there are tools out there. If your manager, your sales leader isn't there to wrap their arms around you and give you strength for that, you've got to find it yourself. You've got to get it yourself by listening to good stuff, by reading good books, by changing your mindset and recognizing that nos aren't about failing, they're about literally failing your way to yes. It is ultimately yes is the destination, you've got to go through those nos, though.

Darryl: I want to bring this back because we're getting close to wrapping things up, and there's a reason I want to bring this back. When we tell you to do discovery, what many people do wrong in discovery is they simply say, " So what's your problem?" " Oh, my problem is this." " Well, why is that?" " Because that." Okay. "That's okay. Got it, thank you," and they carry on. By the way, if you didn't see the mistakes I just made, I'll tell you right now. The mistake I made was I asked why once. I think Mark Hunter's a classic fan of saying, " Ask why at least three times." What's your problem? " This is my problem." Why? " Well, because of this." Well, why because of that? " Well, because of that." Well, why because of that? "Well, because of this." Well, why because of this? " Oh, well because of that." Ah, okay. It's that root cause that's really the issue. If I fix that root cause, it does the domino effect and fixes everything else. Whereas, I wouldn't have got that if I didn't ask why three times. All right, so let's back it up. Same methodology here. What have we learned today, kids? If you're afraid of asking hard questions, of being pushy, of being aggressive, of being assertive, of driving the sales cycle you want, there's a lot of reasons. We talked about you're projecting, we talked about your own bias. But, I think Andrea hit on a big thing for many of us, above and beyond that, which is fear of loss. But why, why is it fear of loss? " Well, it's fear of loss because my pipeline sucks." But why, why does your pipeline suck? " My pipeline sucks because I haven't been prospecting." But why, why haven't you been prospecting? "Well, because I hate doing the fricking activity." Ah, you hate doing the activity, or you don't make time for the activity. Or, what I see often is you're too distracted by Slack, email, social media and everything else to actually have time left to do the activity. If we can fix the activity, then that will then help your prospecting numbers, which will then build your pipeline, which will then eliminate the fear of loss because you've got 3X pipeline relative to your quota. It's all about the activity in that example. You see what I'm doing there? Going down to the root cause. That brings us back to why we had Andrea on today. She's the author with Richard, of Go For No. Andrea, can you tell us quickly... I opened up by talking a little bit about the premise behind go for no, and I fully admit it, I probably bastardized it and I apologize profusely. But, if you take the premise of it's prospecting and I just don't like doing the activity because I don't like getting hung up on, I don't like whatever it might be, how can the Go For No methodology fix that?

Andrea Waltz: So Go For No isn't a traditional book, like something that Jeb or Mark Hunter would write. It's not a traditional sales book at all. It is very much a philosophy that, if you want more yeses in your life, you have to be willing to hear more nos. That if you want more success in your life, in your business, you've got to be willing to fail. We interchange the word fail and the word no, because we want to take that power away from those words. Everybody's like, " Let's not use the word failure." There's not wrong with it. It doesn't mean you are a failure as a person, it means we fail a lot in sales. We all know the analogy of baseball and sales. If we can get three out of 10, we're doing really well, in terms of hits. Those are great stats. That is how it is in sales. The book is a really short fable about a guy who's an average salesperson, who goes to bed one morning. He mysteriously wakes up in a house that belongs to 10 years in the future. He discovers that it belongs to a wildly successful future version of himself. They, together, the old, mediocre him and this wildly successful new him actually pair up and they try to figure out how it is that one of them got successful, this 10 year in the future version of him. What it is is, the secret is, he was just willing to hear no more. He just was willing to hear no more often. That is the secret of Go For No. It's not just a business principle, it's a life principle. You can apply it in everything. You need to have the courage to ask. You need to have the courage to approach, have the courage to prospect, all throughout the entire stage of the sales process. The more you do that, the more the yeses will be there. The less you do that, the more infrequent you do that, the fewer yeses you get. It's just numbers. People aren't numbers, but that is just numbers.

Darryl: I'm on Amazon right now, folks. Now, full disclosure, as you all know I'm Canadian so I'm on the Canadian, . ca. Her book, her Kindle edition of Go For No, in Canadian dollars, is less than 10 bucks. That's a buck 50 US, give or take. I'm rounding, maybe it's more. Are you worth that? Could you sacrifice two Starbucks coffees, or one frappuccino probably, to buy this book? So that you can be that 10 year version of yourself, that's wildly successful. And then, you don't have to worry about being afraid, or being concerned, or hurting these people's feelings, or what VITO will say, or what you're going to say to your boss when you lose the deal because you lost the deal because of your fear of loss, because you didn't have the pipeline because you weren't prospecting. And, you weren't prospecting because you didn't do the activity because you don't like to get no. As she says, " Yes is the destination, no is how you get there." That's Andrea Waltz, that's Go For No. I hope you liked today's session. I had a lot of fun. Thank you, my friend. In the meantime, check her out, follow her on LinkedIn, you know the drill. I'm Darryl, and this, my friend, is the Inside Inside Sales Show. Talk to you soon.