Pavilion

On this week’s episode of Topline, we cover a range of subjects. We give 2024 market predictions as core CPI is the lowest it has been since March 2021, gain clarity on areas like CAC payback averages with data from OpenView, and share our thoughts on OpenAI’s Demo Day. Want more TOPLINE? <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/blog/tag/topline-podcast">Read the recaps</a>.

E32: 2024 Market Predictions

When does healthy competition cross the line into corporate espionage? In this episode, we dive into the explosive saga unfolding between HR tech giants Rippling and Deel. What started as a high-growth race has spiraled into lawsuits, spy allegations, and one of the most bizarre B2B scandals in recent memory — complete with honeypots, toilet phones, and Slack search histories. But beyond the drama, this story reveals deeper truths about culture, leadership, and the risks of growing at all costs. We unpack what really happened, why it matters, and how every tech company should take note. Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?&nbsp; New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode. Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to Topline Newsletter</a> for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Your’re invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! Key Chapters:(00:00) - Introduction to Topline Podcast(01:30) - Birds and Neighbors: A Lighthearted Start(04:12) - Corporate Espionage: The Rippling and Deal Saga(11:08) - The Dark Side of Competition(17:38) - Personal Experiences with Corporate Espionage(24:04) - The Impact of Reputation on Employment(30:06) - Crisis Communication Strategies(34:17) - Navigating Modern PR Strategies(37:12) - The Talent Wars: Headhunting and Recruitment Dynamics(39:42) - The Impact of M&amp;A on Employee Wealth(41:44) - The Wiz Acquisition: A Case Study in Market Dynamics(46:47) - LinkedIn's Scraping Controversy and Its Implications(52:19) - The Future of LinkedIn and Creator Dynamics

When does healthy competition cross the line into corporate espionage? In this episode, we dive into the explosive saga unfolding between HR tech giants Rippling and Deel. What started as a high-growth race has spiraled into lawsuits, spy allegations, and one of the most bizarre B2B scandals in recent memory — complete with honeypots, toilet phones, and Slack search histories. But beyond the drama, this story reveals deeper truths about culture, leadership, and the risks of growing at all costs. We unpack what really happened, why it matters, and how every tech company should take note.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion? 

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:
(00:00) - Introduction to Topline Podcast
(01:30) - Birds and Neighbors: A Lighthearted Start
(04:12) - Corporate Espionage: The Rippling and Deal Saga
(11:08) - The Dark Side of Competition
(17:38) - Personal Experiences with Corporate Espionage
(24:04) - The Impact of Reputation on Employment
(30:06) - Crisis Communication Strategies
(34:17) - Navigating Modern PR Strategies
(37:12) - The Talent Wars: Headhunting and Recruitment Dynamics
(39:42) - The Impact of M&amp;A on Employee Wealth
(41:44) - The Wiz Acquisition: A Case Study in Market Dynamics
(46:47) - LinkedIn's Scraping Controversy and Its Implications
(52:19) - The Future of LinkedIn and Creator Dynamics


E101: Why Rippling and Deel Are a Warning to Every Tech Company

Snipd CEO Kevin Smith shares how his team navigated the challenge of monetizing their app after realizing they couldn’t rely on investor funding and were headed toward bankruptcy. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Kevin shares the emotional highs and lows of launching Snipd’s monetization strategy, handling user backlash, and questioning whether they made the right move. He also reveals the unexpected moment that reassured him they were on the right path and how Snipd turned a tough challenge into a sustainable business. Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?&nbsp; New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode. Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to Topline Newsletter</a> for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Your’re invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! Key chapters:(00:00) - Introduction to Snip and Its Features(02:47) - Facing Financial Challenges as a Startup(06:12) - Transitioning to a Freemium Model(08:57) - User Reactions to Monetization(11:52) - Finding Validation Through User Feedback(15:05) - Lessons Learned and Future Outlook(17:49) - Final Thoughts and Recommendations

SPOTLIGHT: How CEO Kevin Smith Turned Snipd’s Monetization Struggles Into a Sustainable Business

In this milestone episode, Sam, Asad, and AJ reflect on how they’ve grown as leaders, how their perspectives have evolved, and what lessons they’ve learned along the way. We discuss the increasing difficulty of leadership in volatile times and why mental resilience is more critical than ever. From the exhaustion of constant adaptation to the importance of maintaining optimism, we explore the realities of leading through uncertainty and why community—rather than isolation—is the key to enduring these challenges. Thank you for being a listener.   Thank you to everyone who has supported Topline on the way to our 100th.   Want more content from Pavilion?    New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.   Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter">Subscribe to Topline Newsletter</a> for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.   <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.   Your’re invited! <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!   Key Chapters: (00:00) - Celebrating 100 Episodes (03:00) - Reflections on Longevity and Health (05:46) - Navigating Economic Volatility (09:03) - Mental Health and Leadership (11:49) - Lessons from the Past Episodes (15:07) - The Impact of External Factors on Business (18:00) - The Role of Community in Times of Change (20:47) - Communication Strategies in Uncertain Times (23:49) - Embracing Individuality in Business (27:06) - Forecasting in a Volatile Environment (35:16) - Navigating Personal Health Amid Market Volatility (38:08) - The Outlook for 2025 and 2026 (41:52) - Investment Opportunities in Times of Crisis (44:34) - The Importance of Community and Connection (50:25) - Personal Growth and Leadership Evolution (01:01:59) - Memorable Conversations and Reflections

E100: Driving Business Growth When Uncertainty is the Only Constant

In this Topline Spotlight episode, Demetra Anagnostopoulos, CCO at SurePeople, shares insights on navigating a critical shift in SurePeople’s Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) from serving large enterprises to targeting startups. Demetra dives into the challenges of aligning customer success processes, redefining customer journeys, and ensuring her team has the skills to manage diverse expectations. Demetra emphasizes the importance of avoiding organizational silos, fostering cross-team collaboration, and leveraging data-driven approaches.   Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?    New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.   Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter">Subscribe to Topline Newsletter</a> for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.   <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.   Your’re invited! <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!   Key chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (04:59) - Navigating Innovation and Market Changes (10:55) - Customer Success and New ICP Challenges (15:35) - Leveraging Data for Team Dynamics (18:39) - Inspirational Resources and Closing Thoughts

SPOTLIGHT: Shifting ICPs Without Breaking CS with Demetra Anagnostopoulos of SurePeople

AI is revolutionizing the way revenue teams operate, but how much of the hype is real? In this episode of Topline, Sam, AJ, and Asad are joined by Kyle Norton to dive deep into how AI is actually being used in go-to-market strategies. They explore the balance between centralized AI tools and individual adoption, the impact of AI on productivity, and whether AI is leveling the playing field or widening the gap between top and bottom performers. The conversation also touches on the evolving role of ARR in a world shifting toward usage-based pricing, the importance of execution as a company’s true competitive advantage, and how leadership teams can effectively communicate vision and strategy without falling into bureaucratic traps.   Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?    New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.   Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter">Subscribe to Topline Newsletter</a> for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.   <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.   Your’re invited! <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!   Key Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome (02:46) - Personal Updates and Market Reflections (05:58) - The Impact of AI on Work (12:32) - Operationalizing AI in Business (17:57) - Balancing Centralization and Individual Creativity (22:44) - Quantifying AI's Impact (26:57) - Deep Research and AI Applications (33:14) - The Future of ARR and Revenue Models (40:26) - Understanding Usage-Based Pricing (43:10) - Valuation and Revenue Streams (46:05) - Communicating Business Value (49:47) - The Role of Values in Organizations (56:30) - Balancing Structure and Flexibility (01:01:44) - The Importance of Operating Systems (01:07:25) - Personal Motivations and Chips on Shoulders

E99: How GTM Revenue Leaders Are Operationalizing AI for Growth with Kyle Norton of Owner.com

The AI market is noisy, but real business value is hard to prove. In this episode, Alon Talmor, CEO of Ask-AI, tackles the biggest challenge in AI adoption—demonstrating measurable ROI. He shares why many AI solutions fail to justify their cost, how Ask AI approaches value-driven AI, and what businesses should consider before investing.   Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?    New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.   Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter">Subscribe to Topline Newsletter</a> for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.   <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.   Your’re invited! <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!   Key chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Alon Talmor and Ask.ai (02:50) - The Evolution of AI and Its Impact on B2B Customer Experience (06:04) - Challenges in Differentiating AI Solutions (08:54) - The Importance of Value Selling in AI (11:48) - Measuring ROI and Productivity in AI (14:58) - Future Trends in AI and Customer Experience (18:09) - Consolidation of Tools and Final Thoughts

SPOTLIGHT: Alon Talmor, CEO of Ask-AI, on Why Most AI Solutions Fail to Prove Their Worth

The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in every week to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.

Pavilion

E32: 2024 Market Predictions

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