Pavilion

In last week’s episode featuring Edward Chiu, it was revealed that he will serve as co-CEO alongside the CEO of Totango as the two companies merge. But how does this really work? This week, our hosts delve into the effectiveness and long-term sustainability of the co-CEO model, drawing insights from their leadership backgrounds and the achievements of companies embracing this shared role. They also review the data on <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/resource/pavilion-pulse-report-february-2024"> Pavilion’s February 2024 Pulse Results</a> and the <a href= "https://www.ebsta.com/2024-b2b-sales-benchmarks/">Ebsta + Pavilion 2024 B2B Sales Benchmark Report</a>. Want more Topline? <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/blog/tag/topline-podcast">Read the recaps.</a>

E47: Does the practice of co-CEOs actually work?

Most SaaS companies don’t fail because they grow too slowly—they fail because they grow&nbsp;too fast&nbsp;and ignore the warning signs. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, the team engages with Michael Dzik, an operating partner at Radian Capital. Mike shares insights from his extensive experience in the B2B technology sector, discussing the challenges and strategies for companies at different stages of their growth. Key topics include identifying growth stall points, the importance of product flexibility, the role of customer discovery, and best practices in pricing and packaging. Mike emphasizes the need for continuous innovation and reveals how Radian Capital supports companies through various investment approaches. Additionally, Mike recommends notable books he is currently reading, such as 'Blood Meridian' and 'The Mosquito'. Key Moments:00:00&nbsp;— Introduction to Top Line Podcast00:45&nbsp;— Spotlight on Michael Dzik02:21&nbsp;— Radian Capital's Investment Strategy06:05&nbsp;— Challenges and Solutions in Vertical SaaS19:36 —&nbsp;Insights on Pricing and Packaging21:59 —&nbsp;Book Recommendations and Closing Remarks You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

I work with founders to grow their enterprise technology start-ups. I have been in the technology industry for my entire career - always in the B2B space. My current role as an Operating Partner (GTM & Growth) is with Radian Capital headquartered in New York City, a $1B AUM growth equity fund focused on enterprise software investing. We try to help founders expand their companies in a durable and profitable manner.

Michael Dzik

Operating Partner | Radian Capital

Most SaaS companies don’t fail because they grow too slowly—they fail because they grow too fast and ignore the warning signs. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, the team engages with Michael Dzik, an operating partner at Radian Capital. Mike shares insights from his extensive experience in the B2B technology sector, discussing the challenges and strategies for companies at different stages of their growth. Key topics include identifying growth stall points, the importance of product flexibility, the role of customer discovery, and best practices in pricing and packaging. Mike emphasizes the need for continuous innovation and reveals how Radian Capital supports companies through various investment approaches. Additionally, Mike recommends notable books he is currently reading, such as 'Blood Meridian' and 'The Mosquito'.

SPOTLIGHT: Optimizing Growth in B2B Tech with Mike Dzik

SPOTLIGHT: Optimizing Growth in B2B Tech with Radian Capital's Mike Dzik

In this episode, Sam, Asad, and AJ sit down with <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/benkus/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ben Kus</a>, Chief Technology Officer at Box, to unpack how AI is reshaping enterprise tech—from the seismic shift to cloud-native infrastructure to the rise of AI agents that collaborate across platforms. We dive into the realities of leading through volatility, why AI adoption is moving faster than past platform shifts, and how enterprises can navigate the “FOMO” of generative AI without sacrificing trust. Plus, Ben’s take on the future of software engineering, the myth of “non-technical founders,” and the books that keep him thinking ahead. Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?&nbsp; You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Key Moments:[01:14] – Meet Ben Kus: Box’s AI Visionary[05:26] – Leading Through Volatility: COVID, ZIRP, and AI’s Sudden Rise[11:57] – Why AI Adoption Is Moving Faster Than Cloud or Mobile[17:05] – Data Security in the Age of AI: Box’s Guardrails[24:17] – AI Agents: The Next Frontier (or Hype)?[31:41] – Open vs. Walled Gardens: The Future of Enterprise Platforms[38:45] – Is Software Engineering Still a Valuable Skill?[46:33] – Stagnation, Patience, and the Long Game

Experienced technology leader with a demonstrated history of driving innovation across product and engineering at companies of all sizes.

Ben Kus

CTO, Box

In this episode, Sam, Asad, and AJ sit down with Ben Kus, Chief Technology Officer at Box, to unpack how AI is reshaping enterprise tech—from the seismic shift to cloud-native infrastructure to the rise of AI agents that collaborate across platforms. We dive into the realities of leading through volatility, why AI adoption is moving faster than past platform shifts, and how enterprises can navigate the “FOMO” of generative AI without sacrificing trust. Plus, Ben’s take on the future of software engineering, the myth of “non-technical founders,” and the books that keep him thinking ahead.

E103: AI Agents and the Future of Enterprise Tech with Box CTO Ben Kus

AI Agents and the Future of Enterprise Tech with Box CTO Ben Kus

Centralize's Co-Founders Rachit Kataria and William Wang tackle one of the most common sales challenges: deals stall when teams fail to connect with the right stakeholders. Their solution? Visualizing relationship networks to identify gaps, leverage extended connections, and ensure engagement with decision-makers. Listen to this week's episode to learn how to turn relationship intelligence into a competitive advantage in high-stakes sales. 3:10 - Why deals are won at the individual level, not account level5:30 - Common multi-threading challenges in complex sales7:15 - Visualizing relationship networks to identify gaps9:40 - Leveraging extended connections to reach decision-makers12:05 - Balancing feature richness with user adoption14:30 - Key takeaways for sales leaders You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

William Wang

Co-Founder at Centralize

Rachit Kataria

Co-Founder & CEO at Centralize

Centralize's Co-Founders Rachit Kataria and William Wang tackle one of the most common sales challenges: deals stall when teams fail to connect with the right stakeholders.

SPOTLIGHT: How to Master Multi-Threading in Complex Sales

Why do so many sales hires fail? In this episode, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/btagoe/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ben Tagoe</a>, CEO of <a href="https://www.objectivemanagement.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Objective Management Group</a>, breaks down the three critical components when assessing sales hires: fundamental selling skills, sales-specific beliefs, and mindset. Discover how bringing science to the art of sales talent development can dramatically reduce costly hiring mistakes. You're invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter</a> to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. Kyle dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success for revenue leaders like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Ben Tagoe is the CEO of Objective Management Group, an industry leader in sales talent assessments. HIs company helps organizations leverage data-driven approaches to sales development. Tagoe firmly believes that elite selling is a measurable science that can be taught, rather than an innate skill.

In 2022, Tagoe successfully raised capital from a syndicate of funds and family offices to acquire Objective Management Group from its founder. His professional background includes leadership roles at VantageScore Solutions, where he led strategy and partnerships for the largest provider of free credit scores in the United States. His experience also spans corporate strategy at JPMorgan Chase and product management at OnDeck, a pioneering online lender. Tagoe began his career on the government bond sales and trading desk at Goldman Sachs.

Tagoe holds an MBA with High Distinction (Baker Scholar) from Harvard Business School and a Bachelor's Degree from Princeton University.

Ben Tagoe

CEO of Objective Management Group

Why do so many sales hires fail? In this episode, Ben Tagoe, CEO of Objective Management Group, breaks down the three critical components when assessing sales hires: fundamental selling skills, sales-specific beliefs, and mindset. Discover how bringing science to the art of sales talent development can dramatically reduce costly hiring mistakes.

E102: Why Sales Hiring Fails and How to Fix It

Snipd CEO Kevin Smith shares how his team navigated the challenge of monetizing their app after realizing they couldn’t rely on investor funding and were headed toward bankruptcy. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Kevin shares the emotional highs and lows of launching Snipd’s monetization strategy, handling user backlash, and questioning whether they made the right move. He also reveals the unexpected moment that reassured him they were on the right path and how Snipd turned a tough challenge into a sustainable business. Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?&nbsp; New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode. Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Subscribe to Topline Newsletter</a> for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks. Your’re invited! <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast! Key chapters:(00:00) - Introduction to Snip and Its Features(02:47) - Facing Financial Challenges as a Startup(06:12) - Transitioning to a Freemium Model(08:57) - User Reactions to Monetization(11:52) - Finding Validation Through User Feedback(15:05) - Lessons Learned and Future Outlook(17:49) - Final Thoughts and Recommendations

SPOTLIGHT: How CEO Kevin Smith Turned Snipd’s Monetization Struggles Into a Sustainable Business

In this milestone episode, Sam, Asad, and AJ reflect on how they’ve grown as leaders, how their perspectives have evolved, and what lessons they’ve learned along the way. We discuss the increasing difficulty of leadership in volatile times and why mental resilience is more critical than ever. From the exhaustion of constant adaptation to the importance of maintaining optimism, we explore the realities of leading through uncertainty and why community—rather than isolation—is the key to enduring these challenges. Thank you for being a listener.   Thank you to everyone who has supported Topline on the way to our 100th.   Want more content from Pavilion?    New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.   Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. <a href="https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter">Subscribe to Topline Newsletter</a> for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.   <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/the-revenue-leadership-podcast">Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton</a> every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.   Your’re invited! <a href= "https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack">Join the free Topline Slack channel</a> to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!   Key Chapters: (00:00) - Celebrating 100 Episodes (03:00) - Reflections on Longevity and Health (05:46) - Navigating Economic Volatility (09:03) - Mental Health and Leadership (11:49) - Lessons from the Past Episodes (15:07) - The Impact of External Factors on Business (18:00) - The Role of Community in Times of Change (20:47) - Communication Strategies in Uncertain Times (23:49) - Embracing Individuality in Business (27:06) - Forecasting in a Volatile Environment (35:16) - Navigating Personal Health Amid Market Volatility (38:08) - The Outlook for 2025 and 2026 (41:52) - Investment Opportunities in Times of Crisis (44:34) - The Importance of Community and Connection (50:25) - Personal Growth and Leadership Evolution (01:01:59) - Memorable Conversations and Reflections

E100: Driving Business Growth When Uncertainty is the Only Constant

The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in every week to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.

Pavilion

E47: Does the practice of co-CEOs actually work?

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