Shift Your Mindset to Ensure Sales Success

Darryl Praill: It's another wonderful, beautiful day here in the neighborhood folks. Is that my really a lame Mr. Rogers reference, isn't it? I know, I apologize about that. But it is. I'm looking out of my window right now, and I'm looking at tons of beautiful white snow. It's crisp and it's clean. And as much as I freaking hate this season, and I really do, I know you can go skiing and snowballing and skating and all of that wonderful stuff, I just hate it. Give me warm weather anytime of the day, please. What I like about where I live of is that when it snows, it snows. It's not like it comes and it goes, and it comes and it goes, and it's slush and it's brown and it's yucky and it's wet. And then it goes, then it comes back again. It's committed, you know what I'm saying? It's all in on snowing. And that's what I like about it. It knows who it is. It says I'm winter dammit, and you will love it and embrace it. There's no ambiguity. Interesting, isn't it? How I'm going to use a weather analogy today? Let's talk about ambiguity. One of the things I've looked as I reflect back on my own personal career, and people always say, what were some of those milestone moments in your career where you physically shifted, or you had an epiphany, or you had an aha or it was a turning point? And there were multiple. But on almost every single one of those moments, if not every single one, when I think about them, none of them had to do with my raw skills. None of them. It wasn't that I learned some new opening line to prompt a great telephone conversation. Did I learn a new, brilliant, fantastic way in how to handle a certain objection, that learned some kind of cool tactical way to frame an email, to engage an incredible response? None of that do I reflect back upon as being life changing. For me, the life changing moments came when I emotionally, psychologically reframed my circumstances. When I shifted, when I made a decision to abandon this baggage and adopt this approach. I'll give you an example. I've shared before, it's been a while. When I was in my early 30s, I'd had some great career success, but I finally had a bit of a breakdown and all the classic signs, right? Where the company knew was coming and they tried to counsel me. They tried to send me on vacation, but it happens because that's what happens. And you're sitting there on the floor one day and you're sobbing, and you're like, ah. And for me, what I realized at that moment in time, amongst many things, I had a great counselor. I've shared this here before where one of the exercises she said was write your obituary, come back a week later, we reviewed it. Nowhere in my obituary did I ever once talk about my job. That was an example, right? That was an emotional shift is like, oh my gosh, I realized so much more what's important to me. And it wasn't the freaking job. It was families, friends, it was children, it was spouse. It was whatever. The other one, that moment in time when I shifted what I learned was I couldn't own other people's success. I can coach, I can mentor. I can counsel, but if they don't want to own and pick it up themselves and run with it, despite all I did and helped and whatnot, I couldn't invest myself their success or their failure. They were on their own. So I had to stop doing that. Those are just some examples. I look at another example in my life where I had a boss who was basically MIA. Hired me the whole nine yards and then just disappeared. And I was so frustrated and exasperated and it finally got to the point we're three months in where I just had this epiphany's like, screw it. I'm just going to do what I think needs to be done, as opposed to waiting and hoping they get back to me. And if I get it wrong, I'll hold my head up high knowing that I did what I thought needed to be done. Even though I got myself potentially fired, because I just started making decisions arbitrarily. All of those are decisions that are a mindset. It's how you approach it. And we talk about mindset all the time. So look at me connect the dots. We talk about mindset. And a lot of people, they hear it, but they don't really know what mindset means. My son, who I've shared this story before and I'll tell you this, this one happened. This was recent, but I've shared that he's a news anchor, a news television reporter. And when he is on the anchor desk, which is he's usually a weekend anchor because during the week he's doing reporting, he's at that point in his career where he's not full time on the anchor desk yet. We debrief often after his shows and he'll say, oh, I didn't have it today, or I just couldn't get my rhythm right. I just was so stuck. Now he looks great to the audience, but he knows that he could have been better. And the audience really feels it when he is better. So it's not that they see him as negative, but they see him as amazing when he's truly on his game. That's the best way to look at it. And I try to coach him and he's finally getting it. And I said, how you approach that desk going in before you go live, you see, you have two choices. You can either be full of anxiety. What if I stammer? What if I stutter? What if I get my timing wrong? What if I look at the wrong camera? Or you can approach it and say, I want to have fun. I'm talking to my homies and I'm sharing with them everything is going to go on. And I'm going to talk about the weather and my girlfriend/ fiancée now. And this is going to be me. And because of that, I'm going to be smiling. And in fact, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to intentionally smile right now that'll change my demeanor. And in five, four, three, two, one, boom on air. And so he's been practicing that and he's been seeing a difference. So all of those are elements of mindset, but we never really truly go into what mindset means. So I thought today, all of these emotional, psychological, mental games that we play, we need to explore further. So there's no ambiguity, there's no confusion. We can actually make it real and practical. And I have just the guy. I have just the guy for that. Now this lad, this lad's been on the show before. It's been a while, it's been a long while. So he is well overdue, you know what I mean. When I have a good guest, I like to bring them back. So everybody, please welcome to show Mr. Terry Ledden. Terry, how are you doing today, sir?

Terry Ledden: Hey, great. And thanks for having me back Darryl. Really appreciate it. I mean, you're opening comments, I mean, it just flowed and it came from a source and that source really was a grounding in your own experience. And I think that's an area that we want to talk about here this morning.

Darryl Praill: We're going to get down and dirty. We may weep, get your tissues folks. Who knows? Or we may get high fiving. It's tough to say. You never know where this thing's going to go. Now, if you don't know Terry, you don't recall Terry, check him up at his last episode. You can find him on our massive inventory on the INSIDE Inside Sales Show, but he is the founder and managing partner with Sales About Face. Now, Terry is a long time Sandler man. So he knows technique like you cannot imagine. But he's got a special affinity and skillset and track record around helping people in the sales profession improve themselves, right? And he will tell you there's the technical side, which is often what the show talks about, right? The technical skills you need to fix. It's just raw skills, best practices, but then there's the conceptual side, what the interior is to the professional. So Terry, why don't we start off with that? I opened it up, but I mean, what's on your mind? What do you want to specifically hit today? What are the issues you see that inspired us to have this conversation? I'm just going to open it up as vaguely and broadly as that and let's see where we go.

Terry Ledden: Okay. Well, before we dive into it, I want to give a shout out to Sandler because quite frankly they turned my life around with respect to my ability to sell. And I completely and 100% attribute that to their ability to tap into what goes on between our ears and reframe my belief system. I use the word reframe. That's exactly what we're talking about. It totally reframed my belief system in terms of selling. My old self, my old belief system was I believed I had to get every deal. I believed I had to convince people to buy from me. And that just carried so much weight on my shoulders walking into a sales call. I became so inwardly focused. It was all about me and my needs and hitting my numbers and it just became debilitating. And when I got involved with Sandler, it was as a result of something along the line of what you said. I reached a point emotionally in my previous role as a senior executive of international sales training company located in Chicago, been down to Chicago, worked in Chicago, flew around the world, but carried a lot of weight on my shoulders. I was making big bucks like US dollars. And I thought, I am not worthy to be making this kind of money. There's a belief system right there, right? I'm walking into buildings in downtown Manhattan at top floor. I'm feeling the building sway in the elevator. I'm just that kid from Ottawa. What am I doing here in downtown New York city advising senior executives of professional services firms on how to drive revenue improvement? How did I earn the right to do that all of a sudden? And so my sense of self concept if you measure on a scale of one to 10 was like at a two. And I would look at the buyer's decision makers as like an authority figure, right? I'd go into my child kind of inner mindset, and it would cause me to do all kinds of stupid things in sales calls in order to try to impress people. And as I grew in my Sandler role, I realized, look, if I'm not successful, I'm sitting here in my basement making fricking cold calls. And I'd gone from an executive to running my own thing. And if I don't score, I'm dead. I burned all my bridges, there's no turning back. And so that put even more pressure on me. And a few years into that, and I was running that company in the US for about 10, 12 years. And we were quite successful. My clients were the Fortune 50 in technology, all the big names. And so I was starting to feel pretty good about myself, and I got myself into a little bit of politic hot water in the company. I was given some inside scoop that I was going to be called back to Chicago. I had relocated back to Ottawa at that point. I was going to be called to Chicago and I was going to face two lawyers in the executive board room and the owner of the company and was going to be presented with a$ 100 million lawsuit for damages to the company based on a project I was working with a third party to bring new IP, and all the details. So I'm leaving on a Monday morning, getting on the plane to go to Chicago to face this. And we've been doing really good. I got all kinds of German toys in the garage. I'm living on the river. I've got boats at the dock. I got two little kids. They're riding around in ATVs on the... I'm feeling life is great. And all of a sudden it's like I'm standing on the guillotine and it's opening and I'm dropping, I'm dead. Big lawsuit, lose everything. And here's that defining point which had a huge impact on the shift in my belief system. And I'll talk about that as we kind of get in here. But my wife said to me as I was leaving for the airport, she said, " Look, they can take away everything that we have, but they can't take away your kids. They can't take away your values. They can't take away what you stand for and your integrity. And the worst case scenario is we lose this property, we go move somewhere and you go get another job. What's the problem with that?" And I felt so empowered. The weight lifted off my shoulders. I got on that plane and I couldn't wait to get into that boardroom. And I actually had an out of body experience. I know that sounds weird, but I was in a different zone. I was so peaceful, so calm. The intellectual brain, the frontal cortex was totally in gear as opposed to walking in feeling stressed where the old reptilian brain kicks in and you're in freeze, fight or flight and you lose the ability to think. Now, let's transfer that skill. Now I'm in sales, right? And I'm making cold calls. My anxiety level is building. How am I feeling? My ability to think clearly in a call is now compromised, and I don't do so well. And it reaffirms in my mind that I'm not very good at making outbound prospecting calls. I fear this activity and my anxiety and fear builds every morning when I walk into the office, but I'm really good showing the high five. I look good to my manager. I'm feeling great, everything's cool. But what's going on between the ears? What's going on in the mindset? And with Sandler we not only teach really strong technique, but we help to change behavior because there's a third element. If you think of it like a pyramid, behavior and technique at the base, the top of it is all about our mindset, our attitude. We call it driving your batting average. And Sandler had a huge impact for me, which allowed me to experience the power of that. And we do a lot of work now transferring that experience to others. That's how we help sales people get maximum execution, tap into their core abilities, right? So I hear a lot of frustration coming out of sales people. I hear a lot of frustration coming out of the leadership where we've invested, invested, invested on a ton of sales enablement mobilizers, which are giving them tools like CRM, dialers, playbooks, helping them with social, skill training. We're hiring for experience, we're coaching, but we're we're are not getting the execution and salespeople feel frustrated about that. And that's because we're not focusing enough on the other side of the scale, which is the conceptual. So we've got the technical and the conceptual.

Darryl Praill: So it's interesting because just our last episode, Terry, I know you listen to single episode so this totally resonates with you when I say this. We had Eddie Reynolds on who is a multiple time accomplished sales rep turned his own services company all around revenue ops. And the reason I bring this up is because what you just said, we spend all the time in the technical, the sales enablement, all the tools, all the skills that give you what you need. And there's, you said, there's this other side, right? There's this conceptual, technical versus conceptual. So last episode we had Eddie, he was technical. This episode, we have Terry. He's conceptual. So you see, there actually is a madness to what we do here, folks. All right, so you said a couple things that were jumping off the page at me that I actually wrote down. You didn't use these words, but this is what you elude to, imposter syndrome, right? You talked about being in New York, I'm a young kid. I'm a two, they're 10. What am I doing here? And when are they going to figure me out and is my world going to come crashing down? That's the first thing you say. Classic imposter syndrome, we all have it. Folks, by the way, it doesn't go away. I've got news for you. It doesn't go away. It gets controlled and it gets better and it gets less, but never ever goes away. And then the second thing you talked about was this pattern of anxiety feeding into more anxiety, feeding into more self- doubt, feeding into more anxiety as you perhaps are struggling a little bit, and it just exponentially gets bigger until it can overwhelm you. And you use example of freeze, fight, or flight, right? Many of you are stuck in the freeze mode. Many of you will leave the profession. That's the flight mode. Today we're here to talk about the flight response, right? So how can you actually master this? So Terry, what do I need to do to be self aware? And then I guess, what are the tips and tricks? And then how do I approach it? Because I could have anxiety and recognize, be self- aware that I have anxiety. I could have self- doubt and I recognize I have self- doubt. I may even recognize that I have imposter syndrome, but there may be other factors contributing to how I got there that I'm not aware of. So how do I recognize all that? And then what are the steps to dealing with it? Obviously, we can't give you a complete breakdown in the tight timeframes we have here today, but we can give you starting point. So back over to you my friend.

Terry Ledden: Okay. Well, starting point really is to come to a belief or an understanding that it's not about you. In other words, when you go in to meet with a prospect or you're going to get on a call, they really don't care about you. You need to be focused more on them, become more other focused as opposed to self focused. And let me give you a couple of examples. Every one of us as a human being is wired and built. We've landed in this earth with the innate need and desire to be part of a tribe, to be accepted by others. Now, in sales we actually have a technical term for that. We call it need for approval or need for acceptance, right? And so as a human being, I have a need to be accepted by people. I want to be embraced by them. I want to feel good about myself. But if that on a scale of one to 10 is up above a certain number, if it's too high, if I have too much need for approval, the need to be accepted by others, it impedes my ability to do the job when it comes to selling. And specifically the kind of things I'm going to run into would be, I hope they like me. If I make this call, I'm going to be interrupting somebody. They're not going to like me. They're going to hang up. And we start to play out all of these what ifs in our mind, which are false outcomes. And so my need for approval and self survival and being accepted by others starts to override my behavior. What I have to come to an understanding about really is that people don't care about me. I need to be caring about them. The antidote, the pill that we have to swallow, the antidote is to accept the fact that we need to care less about the outcome. Now, let's just kind of absorb that for a second. I don't mean be careless in your sales calls, but detach yourself from the need to have to score. So if you come back and you examine your belief system and you realize, wait a minute, I don't close every deal. Not every prospect is meant to be a customer, right? And so one of the major mindset shifts that we believe it's core to our philosophy in what we do with our clients is we shift their belief or we give them the opportunity to make a decision to shift their belief from going for yes, trying to convince people to do things and instead shift at 180 degrees and go into a sales call, looking for all the reasons why people will not go forward, go for no. In fact, I've got personalized plates on my car, G- O, number four, N- O, go4no. It reminds me stop trying to convince people to do things, ask them questions in your qualification process. We'll teach negative reverse questioning, negative reverse selling. And the magic, and here's where, again, coming back to Sandler. It changed my belief system in my life when it comes to sales. When I learned to do that, and it didn't happen overnight, I had to work at it, I struggled, but when I got it, I could walk into a sales conversation now for the first time in the most important sales call in my life and I don't care whether I get the deal because I acknowledge the possibility that, hey, it might not happen. Go for no. And people are more relaxed. Your prospect is more relaxed, you're more relaxed. And you can just have an authentic down home conversation about whether it makes sense to do business or not, right?

Darryl Praill: So just a few episodes ago, we had Andrea Waltz on because I invited her back. Andrea is the author of Go for No and the whole Go for No series. Clearly Andrea didn't invent that. But it's certainly how she's packaged herself up over the years and it's done well for her. And there was a reason we had Andrea on because it is a mindset. So Terry, I did not talk to Terry about this. I love the fact that he has got that on his license plates. You see what he's done there? And let's explore. He's got it on his license plates. Why did he put it on his license plate? I mean, hell, this could be in your screensaver when you sit down at your desk in the morning. He's got it there to remind him of the mindset he needs going into his conversations, right? It's a constant reminder. It's a releveling, it's a reframing. We use that word, and it's a constant thing. You have to do that. I would contend what's holding you folks back from doing what Terry just talked about... Let's repeat what he talked about, was he said you have to come to a belief or an understanding. You have to come to a belief or an understanding. Notice he didn't say, this is how you come to a belief or understanding. You have to come to a belief or understanding. In other words, you already have control to do this. You have the tools necessary with no further conversation to make this a thing. It's not about you. You need to become others focused instead of self focused when you're worried about yourself and you losing yourself focus. You need accept that you want approval and that need for acceptance, but that that is actually killing you. Benjamin Dennehy, he's been on multiple times. He says the biggest thing holding us back as sales reps is that mom and dad taught us to be polite and to not interrupt and to not ask rude questions as kids. Therefore, we don't do that. Therefore you want to be accepted, that need for approval. I don't want to be rude, they won't approve of me. All right, you need to overcome all of these things. We need to accept the fact that we care less about the outcome. And often that's the beauty of something like a Sandler or other systems out there is they actually allow you to not care about the outcome because you're work in the process. So when your sales leadership gives you a sales methodology to follow Sandler or otherwise, the beauty of that is I'm just going to follow the process and it's designed to have an outcome. It may not. Not everybody's going to be a customer as Terry says. So what's holding you back from coming to a belief or an understanding? What's holding you back. And I would contend and Terry, you may agree or disagree and I want to hear what you say, that what's holding you back is fear of the unknown, fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of change, fear of what does this mean for me, fear that I won't be a good sales rep because I don't have that energy, that anxiety that drives my behaviors today, fear that I'll never get another deal again, because if I go in there going for no, every deal's going to be a no. Fear that this is going to be a lot of work, fear that this is going to be hard, fear that I'm not going to have time to make this transition, fear that my boss is going to disagree with me and yell at me for being so stupid and I should instead do what they're saying to do. I contend it's fear. What do you think Terry in your experience? And I know it varies from person to person. Stop, search the fundamental advice of come to a belief or understanding. You'll hear me say folks, give yourself permission. It's an expression I use all the time. You need to give yourself permission to fail, to be rejected, to not be part of the tribe short term. That's the same as coming to a belief or understanding. I think it's fear holding you back. What do you think, Terry, holds us back?

Terry Ledden: Yeah, again, it's all coming from the school of MSU, making stuff up. And so we take this thought that we have and we project out and we build our own movie and those movies never end well. And so we have to just step back and acknowledge the fact that there is truly a disconnect. There has to be a disconnect between what I do in my role. So if we take sales as a role, if we take ski instructor as a role, if we take dad as a role, mom as a role, those are all things that we do. It's a role, we're doing activity, right? We're doing stuff. Those activities and the results and outcomes of those activities do not define who I am as an individual, as a real person. And the mistake that we all make is we tend to take the feedback, the scorecard out of our roles and we allay those upon ourselves over here. And we believe that we are what we did and how we scored. So if I'm in sales as an example, and I'm having a lousy month and I have another lousy month, if I allow those results to define my sense of self- concept in terms of who I am, then my ability to get out of that ditch in the next month is severely compromised. I had to detach myself. I needed to have separation from who I am and what I do. And soon as I realized that, and I took my scorecard and evaluated it and realized it's not a function of who I am, it was a function of how I implemented the process. Where could I improve the process? And so another hidden weakness conceptually is one that we call self- awareness. And a lot of people walk around with a very low level of self- awareness. In other words, their ability to look in the mirror objectively and identify coming out of a sales call, whether it's a great call or not so great a call, what could I have done differently? My ability to get a lesson out of that call and actually write it down, like keep a journal book, right? And write it in your journal book, every sales call I should debrief what went well, what could I improve? That trains the mind to detach from the outcome and intellectualize it, engages the executive brain and gets us out of what we refer to as sympathetic activity to get more into the parasympathetic, which is more the calming, right? And there's some things we can do physically. Like before every call, I go through a breathing routine. Deep breathing, and it's amazing how it brings down your heart rate. I did that before this call here today, right? And brings down your heart rate. If we're making cold calls, I always tell my people, if you're making calls, how are you doing it? It's amazing the number of people, SDRs, BDRs are making calls. They're sitting at the desk, they're hunched over with a headset on. The worst position because it creates cortisol, the stress hormone. Get up, walk around, get animated because it'll improve testosterone. It'll keep the executive brain engaged. So there's some grounding things we can do physically to be able to better control ourselves in the moment. But if our self- awareness is so low that we're afraid to stare ourself in the mirror and admit that we could be better and we go avoidance feelings, then we'll fail to improve, right?

Darryl Praill: So, Terry had me typing up a storm here. He's one of these guys, the more you listen to him, you're like, oh damn, oh, that's good. Oh my gosh. So we talked about self- awareness. We talked about give yourself permission. We talked about come to a belief or understanding. Then you use a different word. You use the word detach. You need to detach yourself from the outcome. So let's explore that. When you do a call review of your call, how do you react? Are you listening to yourself and then going, oh, oh, I said that? Oh, I missed this. Oh, I'm such a loser. Now I'm exaggerating a little bit, but you know in your mind that's what you're thinking. Or do you detach yourself and you say, yeah, I missed that. Okay, no problem. Next I will get that. Oh, I should have said that there. Okay, next time I'm going to say that. I mean, I'm making a note to myself to go practice that. So I'm detached. I'm not judging, I'm not getting emotional. I'm detaching myself because this is just about getting better. Just about getting better. It's all it is, all right? Giving yourself permission says I'm not going to get it better right away. It's going to take repetition until it becomes muscle memory. So I'm going to listen to lots of calls and I will progress. I'm giving myself permission to improve this skillset over the next three months, as an example. And I'm putting together a plan to improve that skillset. So I've detached myself and I'm reacting accordingly. The one thing that kept coming to mind as I'm listening to Terry talk, and I am not, instead of I am not a lawyer, I am not a professional counselor. So if I am getting this wrong, please don't... Look at my intent as opposed to what I'm saying. I imagine it's like those who have an addiction, drugs, alcohol, smoking. What I'm told is they have to ultimately make a choice, but the urge never goes away. For some, it can diminish over time, not for others, but the urge never goes away. Which is why for many people you'll hear them say they need hit rock bottom, because when they finally hit rock bottom, they have to make a choice. Do I want to keep on doing this or not? So you are not alone. Now, if you are unable to make that choice, if you're unable to break that pattern, then I am going to contend that the issue is not your sales skills. The issues is you've got other factors affecting your ability to make that choice and you may want to see a therapist to explore those. Because it's not uncommon that some childhood trauma or some angst you felt in your teenage years, maybe your desire to be accepted in school as an example, you were an outcast, is driving your behavior today, even though you're an adult now and people like you. So detaching yourself also says I'm going to have a clinical view of what's driving my behaviors and I'm going to put a plan together to fix it. Did I get it right?

Terry Ledden: Yeah, very good advice. Yeah, I mean I follow a lot of CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. I read a lot about it and I bring those into my practice with my clients, right? But I'm not a behaviorist, but I bring enough to probably be dangerous. But it helps to open up the mindset of people, right? And when they can put that into practice and they start to feel the impact of it, we start to develop a solution for people. I'll give you an example. And so if I have this feeling that I keep getting every time I have to do prospecting, got to do outbound that I'm going to be interrupting people, then there's a tool that I can utilize to help reshape my belief system. So we call it journaling. I get up in the morning, I take an eight and half by 11 piece of paper, divide it in half. So the upper half are the goals. Bottom half are the outcomes at the end of the day. Left side, what is the belief goal that I have for today? And my belief goal to change the belief from I'm interrupting people is I'm providing people an opportunity to up their game. So that's my attitude goal. And beside that, what is my behavior goal? I am going to make 10 outbound contacts today with no... I can't control the outcome, so why am I worried about it? I can't control whether somebody says yes or no, or even has a conversation, just pick up the phone and dial it. That's the only thing I have control over. At the end of the day, come down to the bottom, I go back to my behavior goals. How many attempts did I make? Oh, I made 12, 15. Now, how do I feel having done that behavior? And so I'm creating some biofeedback. And if I do that for seven weeks, I've changed my belief system.

Darryl Praill: Oh, dude.

Terry Ledden: People have to step into it, right?

Darryl Praill: Yeah, you've got to own it.

Terry Ledden: And if they're unwilling to step into it, you've got to own it, for sure. And the last one I wanted to mention, we talked about need for approval. We talked about self awareness. The third one that's so important is controlling emotion. And that's something that triggered me watching that podcast that I pinged you on I think it was on a Friday evening, and controlling emotion. Salespeople, we're all emotional beings, right? And there're things that trigger us emotionally. I can be super excited when I go into a deal. Our behavior, how we behave, how we act in front of people is a direct reflection of how we're feeling. So if I'm excited, I'm going to be amped up on that sales call. I know I'm going to be saying things that I may not have control over because when I'm acting emotionally, my brain order shuts down, the intellectual executive brain shuts down and stupid things come out of my mouth. And that's when I do my debrief afterwards. And I go, when he said this, why didn't I reverse him? I made an assumption in terms of what he meant. I've learned the Sandler technique of reverse questioning. I've been doing it for 20 years. Why didn't I do that? Oh, because I realize now he triggered a little emotional thing. So I'm writing down, okay, I slipped on the emotion thing and it's registered and it's always a work in progress, right? But I'm detached. I don't take it personally, but I had to learn not to take it personally. First time I did journaling, I was like, wow, this is really weird, man. I'm not sure if I can do this, right? So controlling emotion, we have to maintain our objectivity. If we're in engaged emotionally, we have need for approval, we're going to have a full pipeline. Nothing's going to close. We're afraid to hear no. So we don't push for decisions. And by the way, our approach to go for no is slightly different than Andrea's. I follow her work. It's not about pushing, pushing, pushing till they say no. It's really about a mindset that not everybody's meant to be a customer. Not everybody's meant to be a client. Let's weed them out as quickly as possible so I'm not wasting time getting ghosted on the backend after I spent 20 follow- up calls and they're not returning my phone calls, which what does that do to my need for approval? It kills me. What does it do to me emotionally? It drives me crazy when people don't have the courtesy to at least email back, not interested. I can't get no respect, right? And so if I can detach emotionally, that doesn't bother me. I'm able to go for now where I really don't care about the outcome. Darryl, let's just you and I have a conversation about what's going on in the business. I don't know that I can help you, but if we talk for 20 minutes at the end of it we can both decide if there's enough meat there to take it any further. And if not, I'm totally okay with that. Now, when I have that conversation upfront with somebody, the prospect kind of detunes a little bit. They become less anxious and I'm going to try to sell them and it takes the weight off my shoulders to try to sell them and we can just have a really good, authentic, real conversation. Just like you're working with your son, get on the air, just be you, man. Be real, talk about your day and relax, right? And if we can go into sales calls that way, life can be just a whole lot better and a whole lot more fun.

Darryl Praill: So, I just did a webinar folks. It's actually targeting the insurance industry. So you'll see it on the VanillaSoft website. It's like five key tactics you need to improve your sales success in the insurance industry. And as I listened to today's call, the discussion around emotional intelligence, discussion around persistency, discussion around give yourself time, discussion around goal setting, et cetera. We cover all that off. You think about, you're worried about interrupting somebody. Imagine being an insurance rep who's probably calling during the dinner hour and what the reaction is they're getting. I mean, they live it like you wouldn't believe. If you want a follow- up piece of content, check that out. You might enjoy it. The conversation was really good, even though it was targeted insurance. Everything we talked about was just sales reps talking to sales reps. So it builds upon what we talked about today. We're way over time, but that's what happens. We were way over time with Eddie as well if I recall, for the same reasons. So we've now covered off, shall we say the technical versus the conceptual? We bookended them. We hope you like this guys. Terry, what's the best way for people to talk to you, to reach out to you to learn more about what you do? How do they get a hold of you?

Terry Ledden: Well, easy stuff, no pressure. I mean, we can put a link in the video and they can download our six formulas who ensure sales success, a little mini white paper. It'll kind of help reinforce for them and give them a couple of things that they can practice and use to start becoming more detached and also help to build trust really, really quickly with their prospects and just up their game up and drive up their batting average.

Darryl Praill: The one thing I will tell everybody, Terry is quite active of on LinkedIn, so you can check him out there. So that's often how we get there. You'll see his linkedin.com/ in/ terryledden- sandlertraining. So check him out. He's a good guy. And again, go back and hear his last episode. You're going to love it. Out of time, so there you go. Good call today, folks. Thank you for joining us. Remember, it's so many things. Starts with self awareness. Do you have a need for approval? Are you able to control your emotion? Are you able to detach yourself from the outcome? Can you come to a belief or understanding? Will you give yourself permission? I could go on, but maybe what you should do is just listen to this episode all over again, share it with a colleague, share it with a peer. If you see another rep struggling with these issues, send them this episode. They will love you for it. My name is Darryl Praill. That my friends is Terry Ledden and this is the INSIDE Inside Sales Show. Take care folks. We'll talk to you next time.

Terry Ledden: Thanks, Darryl.