This is a podcast episode titled, ICP vs. Target Audience: Stop Pushing the Rock Uphill (with Jeff Hardison) | Ep. 207. The summary for this episode is: <p>On <strong>Scrappy ABM</strong>, host <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/masoncosby/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Mason Cosby</strong></a> sits down with <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-hardison/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Jeff Hardison</strong></a>, CRO at <a href="https://www.casemark.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>CaseMark</strong></a>, to cut through tool-first thinking and get back to the fundamentals: pick the <strong>ideal customer profile</strong> that buys, retains, and expands—then run ABM to get <strong>more of your best</strong>. Jeff draws a sharp line between <strong>ICP</strong> and a <strong>target audience</strong> (the hunch you’re “pushing up a hill”) and shows why alignment breaks when leadership confuses the two.</p><p>ㅤ</p><p>They map <strong>old-school account-based playbooks</strong> to today’s stack, using <strong>intent</strong>, tasteful <strong>personalization</strong> by <strong>industry</strong> or <strong>growth stage</strong>, and <strong>PLG</strong> motions that convert free usage into organization-wide adoption—the classic “come over the top” expansion. From <strong>Calendly’s</strong> surprising webinar signal (“please self-promote the product more”) to building lists with AI agents and wiring <strong>product + checkout data</strong> to measure PLG ABM, this conversation stays grounded in experiments, feedback, and outcomes.</p><p>ㅤ</p><p>If you’re testing a new segment, scaling a hybrid <strong>PLG + sales</strong> motion, or correcting an over-automated program, this is a practical blueprint to run <strong>scrappy</strong> without breaking the bank.</p><p>ㅤ</p><h1>👤 Guest Bio</h1><p><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-hardison/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Jeff Hardison</strong></a> is the <strong>CRO at </strong><a href="https://www.casemark.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>CaseMark</strong></a> and previously served as <strong>VP of Product Marketing at Calendly</strong>. He’s also worked at <strong>Clear Bet</strong> and led programs that connect old-school account-based fundamentals with modern platforms, PLG activation, and expansion motions.</p><p>ㅤ</p><h1>📌 What We Cover</h1><ul><li>The <strong>ICP vs. target audience</strong> distinction—and why confusing them derails ABM</li><li>Using <strong>AI agents</strong> to scrape “top 10 / top 100” lists, pair domains, and <strong>enrich</strong> before outreach</li><li><strong>Old-school ABM</strong> tactics (direct mail, events, coordinated sales air cover) mapped to modern platforms</li><li><strong>Tasteful personalization</strong>: segment by <strong>industry</strong> or <strong>growth stage</strong> instead of risky person-level guesses</li><li>Why <strong>PLG content</strong> can lean product-tutorial, while <strong>sales-led</strong> needs more <strong>category/problem</strong> education</li><li>The <strong>hybrid PLG + sales</strong> content path: awareness → sign-up → self-pay → sales expansion → CS enablement</li><li>Measuring PLG ABM: wiring <strong>product data</strong> and <strong>checkout</strong> to prove sign-up, activation, upgrade, and spread</li><li>The <strong>Dropbox method</strong>: free “viral” adoption, then one org, one invoice, and <strong>IT</strong> alignment (SSO, SCIM)</li><li>Running <strong>manual ABM</strong> to expose solvable problems (tracking, enrichment, MQA signals) before scaling tools</li><li>User interviews that reveal unexpected <strong>edge use cases</strong>—and reshape ICP, content, and product priorities</li></ul><p>ㅤ</p><h1>🔗 Resources Mentioned</h1><ul><li><strong>Calendly</strong></li><li><a href="https://www.hubspot.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>HubSpot</strong></a></li><li><a href="https://www.casemark.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>CaseMark</strong></a></li><li><strong>ZoomInfo</strong></li><li><strong>Clay</strong></li><li><strong>Apollo</strong></li><li><a href="https://chat.openai.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>ChatGPT</strong></a></li><li><strong>Manus</strong> (for building AI agents)</li><li><strong>Clear Bet</strong></li><li><strong>Dropbox</strong> (“Dropbox method” reference)</li><li><strong>US Banker Magazine</strong> (example within trade publications)</li><li><a href="https://scrappyabm.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Scrappy ABM</strong></a><strong>:</strong> Visit for more ABM tips and strategies.</li><li>Connect with <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/masoncosby/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><strong>Mason Cosby</strong></a> for a conversation about ABM.</li></ul><p>ㅤ</p><p>If you enjoyed today’s episode and found valuable insights for your business, be sure to subscribe to the Scrappy ABM podcast for more expert discussions. Don’t forget to leave a review and share this episode with your team or fellow marketers!</p>