Beth Fisher is here to Reflect, Reject, and Be Remorseless

Intro: I'm not coming down, I never liked it on the ground. I'm not coming down, I want to go higher, higher than this.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Hey, this is Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, host of the Badass Women's Council Podcast. We are here for reflection and connection for the high achieving women like you. So our topics are all about helping you reflect on you and your story. And if you're looking for some real connection with other high achievers, go to BadassWomen'sCouncil. community and jump in, you can actually meet and share and engage with other high achieving women. And we have lots of interesting topics that we cover, including a masterclass that starts this week, where we will talk about health, wealth, and leadership. It's a monthly subscription that runs from February to November. We'd love you to check it out.

Intro: I'm not coming down.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: This week's episode is with Beth Fisher. She is the author of a book, remorseless learning to lose labels, expectations, and assumptions without losing yourself. I had the honor of being a guest on Beth's podcast recently, and we had so much fun. I said," Oh, you have to come and be a guest on my show too." So here we go.

Intro: I'm not coming down.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Hey Beth, how's it going?

Beth Fisher: Good. How are you?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Super good. So, we're turning the tables. You interviewed me recently on your podcast, which was so much fun. I could barely stand it. We recorded in the evening and I was still kind of jacked up, excited, I had a hard time sleeping that night, it was so fun. And I immediately said," Oh, my gosh, that's so fun. Let's do it again. You come on mine." So yay. Here we are.

Beth Fisher: Yay! I know. I didn't want to hang up last time we were together.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I know. Tell everyone a little bit about your podcast and then we'll talk about your book. You got a lot of stuff going like this episode is going to be full, but start with the podcast.

Beth Fisher: Okay. So I will start and it's all tied into my book. So the podcast is called the Remorseless Podcast and it's sort of an offshoot of a syndicated show that I'm doing called remorselessly biblical. And that's what you were actually on. So life network for women through their app pushes out people shows. And so this all started when I wrote a book called remorseless, learning to lose labels, assumptions, and expectations without losing yourself. And so, yeah, the Remorseless Podcasts, remorseless means without guilt in spite of wrongdoing. And so that has been my experience. I am, as you mentioned a doer, right? So I've been just checklisting it my whole life and the older I get, I learned to find moments of peace and slow down a little bit, but still I can't stay there too long, or I don't feel like me. So I'm all about being authentic. I'm all about saying, you know what? You got to kind of get over the stuff in your past or what people told you, you were in order to be who you were created to be.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: That topic of what people told you you were, is a theme that has run deep through my coaching. I know your coaching, the podcast conversations. I talk about it as we were living a story. And so often times someone else has asked us to live their story or their expectations of us instead of us writing our own chapters for our story. And what's really beautiful, and also challenging about that is living a unique story for yourself means that you live in the juxtaposition of the boldness and the sexiness and the uniqueness and the just mind numbing vulnerability of what if nobody likes it.

Beth Fisher: Yeah, that's it, that's it. And for me, I think I remember from your story a bit as well as you are a younger girl, our younger versions want to fit in because we're human beings, right? And as one of the core competencies of being a productive adult and human at any age, it's fitting in somewhere and finding your people and knowing that you belong. And especially coming from, I grew up in a very small town in Northeast Ohio, and there is a village, or like 3, 700 people. I often joke I got in trouble before I knew I was in trouble, because everybody else had told my parents before I even got home.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Same. We've had that conversation. Same, same, same.

Beth Fisher: Yeah. So like I was there and I just have always been a person who asked why. I'm a lifelong learner and school kind of bored me cause I could tell the teachers didn't want to be there. And I had bigger questions and they just didn't care to answer them. So I kept trying to be me in a space, in a silo where everybody else didn't want me to be that way, because they weren't that way. So crosstalk

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And that makes them uncomfortable when you step out of it.

Beth Fisher: Yeah. And it's funny now because I still have the sort of the predilection to make people feel uncomfortable, not on purpose, but I do. And now I'm so sensitive to it that I'm like," Well that's on them." But when I was a little kid, I thought it was all my fault. I took on all of that guilt. Like what am I doing wrong? What do I need to do to be right to fit in? And for me, a lot of that stemmed the guilt anyway and getting stuck, stemmed from my religious upbringing. So those expectations not only started for me in a very small town with friends and teachers, but primarily in the Catholic church, I'm Italian Irish, I was going to be Catholic. I love it. There's a lot of sentimentality there. There's a lot of tradition there that I really still to this day value and love, but what else was there? At least for me, what my young ears heard was a lot of condemnation and was a lot of," Wow, you had pre marital sex", or" Wow, you drank too many beers", or" Wow, like you said all these bad words, and so therefore you're no good. God doesn't love you and you're going to hell." That's what I heard. So, I did not understand the struggle that I was in real time because I was just always struggling inside this inner turmoil. Outside, I mean, I was knocked out of the park, right. I mean, from a societal expectation standpoint, it was like," Oh, she gets straight A's. Oh, she plays four season sports or whatever. And she's the old good girl", all on the outside. So when that disconnect happens and you know you are showing up in a way that does not feel like who you truly are. It's an interesting ride. And I started to make very bad decisions because I got to the point where I was like," I'm done. What is the point? I can't do this anymore."

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right. Ef it. If I'm going to be condemned for it, I might as well just do it and enjoy every single second of it.

Beth Fisher: Oh yeah. Often, crosstalk just like, screw it. There's no point I'm done. And if you don't like me, and I got very mean, I often tell people now when I coach, our spiritual gifts and blessings are just that, but our blessings can also be our worst enemies and a curse blessings and curses because I have been gifted with the gift of writing and words. And I was afraid to actually say that for many years, because people would say," Oh, you just think you're better because you know how to write or you know all these big words." And I'm like,"Well, I just like to read", but because those were my spiritual giftings and I was able to do that. I was also able to tear people apart very, very quickly with my mouth, with my words.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah. I can remember the time that I learned the true meaning of the word sarcasm, because I got to tell you I'm good at it, but I speak sarcasm as a native language better than any other language, but the word actually means to rip at one's flesh. Yeah. And I had someone, a boss, say to me one time Scott Miller, who's written a book management mess to leadership success. He's a dear friend of mine. And he also made some mistakes that he wrote about in that book. But one of the great gifts that he said to me one day and I'm making big money, I'm doing big work. And it was this, he said to me, one day," Please don't let sarcasm become your brand."

Beth Fisher: Wow. Good advice.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And at the time it felt like the biggest kick in the gut because he was right. And because I garnered a lot of laughs and built community around my sarcasm, people expected me to have a snarky comment in the meeting. And that was funny and fun, but it was diminishing my credibility and my value and my worth on a team. And so I am appreciative that he said, I'll never forget it. And that was probably 15 years ago, 10, 15 ago. Yeah.

Beth Fisher: That's really, really good advice because I am the same way. And I was always able to, and it was a defense mechanism, right. That's really what that is. And either people who didn't get the sarcasm, in our minds, I don't know about yours, but my mind always went," Well, that's just because they're dumb", which is a terrible judgment to make. And somehow it made me feel better about myself. I'm like," Well, this is just who I am." So I was hiding behind the facade of sarcasm and stark and just like, well, because it made me come across like I didn't care, but actually the inverse is true. I wasn't ready to have all those emotions, the feelings.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I think this is something that you and I both need to pause to talk about because we are raising, we have raised and are raising young women and young adults, and this is important because the thing that we have in common as a human connection is our brokenness. And the fact that we're all struggling with someone and something internally, no matter what it looks like on the outside. And as we're raising teenagers and young adults and pre- teens whose brains aren't fully developed, who have zero context for those feelings that they're experiencing, and these are the ways that we process them, that usually look like bad behavior. And it's how we're trying to learn how to find our spot in the world. And unfortunately now we've, social media gives that bad behavior, a microphone and a video, whereas you and I were, we only exposed our nastiness to, 40 or 50 people, and that can be broadcast to thousands or millions. But I think the grace and the space that it requires to raise pre- teens and young adults and teenagers to allow them to be so messy and love them through that mess is the difference between those that come out the other side better for it. And those that come out the other side, bitter and resentful and broken from an unintended consequence of a parent or a loved one trying to quote unquote, fix them. We're not here to be fixed. We're here to be broken and connected and love each other through the crap.

Beth Fisher: No question. My daughter will turn 24 next month. And when I was raising her, many of those years, in the teenage years, I was a single mom. So, there was isolation on both sides, because, as a teenager, you need to, and she's much more introverted than I am. So, for awhile, there was just the inherent disconnect. I'm like," Oh, so you did get some of your dad's genes, I guess. I don't know." But for me I'm like," Why aren't you coming out of your bedroom? Why don't you want to hang out with me?" And there was a really big divide for us. And I think a lot of, to your point, our jobs as moms, or as a parenting figure, even in some people's lives, when you've young adults coming alongside, you try to figure who they are as well. If we fix them, there's a very thin line and a slippery slope between fixing and enabling and what I've seen other parents who were the consummate fixers like," Oh, well, so- and- so, I'll just call the teacher, or I'll get you on the team or I'll call the coach or I'll make this all better", whatever, throwing money or politics or some dumb thing around that adults can do and especially in small communities. And what it teaches that kid is the unintended message, the subliminal message that their parent doesn't think they're capable of doing it themselves. And or then they continue down the path of life, college and relationships and young adulthood, job searches. And they're like," Well, why can't I just get it? Why do I have no accountability? What do you mean the answer's no?" They don't know how to take rejection. They don't know how to pick up after a point of adversity, they just stay stuck. And that is the biggest point of sadness, for me personally, is when I watch people say, or just get stuck, or they'll say to me, I don't want to do anything again, because I'm not worth it. Or I don't think I can, or I can't, or it doesn't matter. I'm not that special. I'm not important because somebody in their past has made them think otherwise.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Absolutely. And especially as high achieving women, I had to face the reality that my daughter was, she's 19. She was struggling in her early teen years thinking that she was supposed to be me, or that I was saying that the way I did life was the right way. And one day she said to me," Why can't you just be like other moms?" And I had to stop, and before I responded, I had to ask myself," What did that really mean in her comment?" And I said," Well, what do you mean by that?" And she didn't really know what she meant. She was just saying something that she knew would hurt me because she was hurting. And I said," If you want me to be a mom that stays home and doesn't work, you're asking me to be somebody I'm not. And what I want us to talk about is I don't want you to be me. I want you to be the best part of you. And I just want that inaudible back to me. Can we just agree that I don't expect you to be me, but please don't expect me to be anybody else either." And it was a short but profound conversation for me. And I think for her too, because unfortunately we look exactly alike and sound exactly alike, but we couldn't be more different in our fundamental personality styles and the way that we move through the world. And I wanted her to have the freedom to go and find the best version of her and not to think that she needed to emulate me.

Beth Fisher: Yeah. It is such a difficult job, relationally. I feel like for very strong women for high achieving, high power, whatever you want to label us, but we are doers and we get stuff done and we've got goals and we are high functioning, high achieving women. So, in my experience with that has done is caused relational tumult in every aspect of my life. So, as an example, men were always sort of attracted to that like," Oh, she's strong and confident and cool and funny and sarcastic, whatever, I want to be with her." Okay, good. So then I'm feeling like," Great, this person's really interested and they like me." And what I wrote about in the book in remorseless is there's a section in there that says something along the lines of what I could never reconcile was how somebody could like me one minute and the same person who professed this undying love, IE, my husbands, plural, I was the same me but all of a sudden, instead of loving me, they hated me, hated me. I mean wanted nothing to do with me because they felt so comparatively insecure when I started to make more money or when one of my ex husbands at one point said to me," You just think you've got so many friends. They're not your friends", and I'm sitting around like five of my girlfriends." Well, I think they are. I'm not sure why you don't think they are", but there was a lot of, again, relational condemnation that I couldn't help but correlate to what I thought God thought of me as well. Like," Who do you think you are? You're not as good as you think you are." But the crazy thing is I never thought anything. I was just trying to be me. I was just trying to do things and accomplish things. But man, two divorces later, and I was done and the same thing with Olivia, as a mom, one day, it was this crazy moment of understanding, finally, that it must be really hard to have a mom like me. She's my only daughter. I couldn't have kids. I had a bone marrow transplant when I was in the middle of my first divorce. I was 25 was diagnosed with leukemia. The doctor said," You're not going to make it. There's no cure for this. You're probably going to die." So I'm picturing Livvy growing up without a mom. And I again thought that the cancer diagnosis was a punishment for my sin. I thought that was literally God given to me. I had crazy thoughts that took a lot of years of deconstruction to figure out, wow, was I off base, but it dawned on me that Olivia and I are so incredibly close, but yet when she was in the process of trying to figure out who she truly is and was going to be teenage years, to have me as an example, who I was in the process of working through all of the grief of a divorce and so forth and trying to find my way back to myself, that had to be incredibly hard for her to watch and to show me love. Because she, in some weird way, knew and knows how much I adore her unconditionally, but yet she purposely couldn't have me be the person her go- to at that time. A counselor told me, actually, I had sent her to counseling. I'm like," Look, if you're not going to talk to me, you got to talk to somebody, you can't hold all of this in." And the counselor looked at me and said," Why would you think that you would be her person? Because she's trying to find her independence. She's trying to find her authenticity, which are things I know you care about. But if you have been the only and primary example for her, she's got to bust away from that break away from that, so she can literally craft it and create it on her own." I'm like," Well, this makes sense. Where was that in Psych 101?"

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It's so true, and as a mom, I experienced the same thing and I hear my daughter talk about other moms and the conversations they were having. And there's a part of your soul that just aches because you think," That's my little girl." And I, like you, just mourned it for a bit. And then I had to work myself out of that. It was turning into this thing where I became needy and it kind of threw some guilt vibes about some of that stuff. And we have a very open conversation relationship in this house. And so they weren't afraid to share with me that that's how things were being felt and heard. And so I had to check myself and say," It's true." And then I just, I sat down with her one day and just said," I'm sorry, I miss you. I miss being your everything. And I know I can't continue to be your everything if you're going to be you, but I just need you to know that I don't expect you to fix it or change it. I just want you to know what I'm feeling." And my daughter is not, she doesn't like to have these kinds of conversations. I kind of have to just work them in, in the car, so I'm going somewhere or something.

Beth Fisher: When she's trapped.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yes. Which is trapped. But I think it's important that even when the conversation is difficult, that we still say the words and say the words not expecting return. Oftentimes I think we say things to our young adults and our teenagers and we expect them to go," You're so right, mom. Thanks for sharing that." No, all I care about is did she go away knowing how I felt and did it touch her in a way that maybe she'll need that later? I shouldn't say it because I need the affirmation of act.

Beth Fisher: Right? And that's the difference between selfish parenting and selfless parenting. And I've seen so many selfish parents just who need that affirmation as a parent who have also gone through broken relationships or difficult parts in their adult journeys. And I think the thing that kids don't realize is that as parents, we have a lot of the same hurts and we're just a little bit older, a little bit further in our journey. So we're trying to kind of work through that and OPS like coach and parent and raise up a kid, but we're not always going to get it right. And it's a struggle. So I'm just, I'm very grateful that Olivia has come to be okay with exactly who she is too. That was my, I think, that's my greatest accomplishment, achievement in life. If somebody says," Oh, what's the thing you're the most proud of?" I don't even waiver. I'm like," Well, my daughter, because she knows who she is and she's out in the world helping other people. And she's good." As long as she's good, that's that's, to me worth every tear that I shed when she didn't want to talk to me or be in a relationship, I'm like," Okay, I battled through that. And this is the outcome. And thank God, it's the outcome because God gives us our kids for certain amount of time. And then it's like, let them fly. Let them go." crosstalk

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And I've talked about this, we both agree that they're good means they are being themselves and it's not tied to achievement because that's a societal stressor that my kids, even though it hasn't been put upon them inside their home, it's been put upon them in their schools and with their peers. And with just the societal message that if you're not on a fast track to something that you must be doing it wrong, and that's bullshit.

Beth Fisher: Yeah. Like Yale. Fast track to Yale, you're like," Okay, look." And it's just, basically I used to roll my eyes. I used to be the girl who would roll her eyes when somebody would try, and like, in my own words, give me the mumbo jumbo BS about mindfulness or stillness, or go do some yoga. I'm like," I'm a marathoner. Sitting still and chanting, not my thing." It's like running far fast and swearing is my thing. So they kind of don't align. So, I was for many years, the last person who wanted to hear about being still, and having time and the older I get, the more I realized how imperative that is because when I don't have that time to connect to my inner well- being my outer decisions, my outer wellbeing is a mess, so.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: The literal tagline of this podcast is reflection and connection. And usually we have a bias towards one more than the other, but to me, that's the true life balance. It's not about time and task and who you're spending your time with home or work. Life balance is the balance of reflection and connection. The amount of time that you listened to those small voices in your own head and heart, and let God speak to you because of the time that you've given in stillness. But then also then to use that, to connect in a meaningful way, to me, that's where you get a sense of peace and satisfaction.

Beth Fisher: For sure. The wholeness yeah. Took a lot of time to get whole, but that's part of the journey too. And yeah, it really that's why I wrote the book. You asked me earlier," Why did you write this?" And, one, it's also another kind of crazy story about being who you were created to be, which is, I always knew I loved to write. And forever, teachers," You're a pretty writer." And so here's me a little miss sarcasm, like,"Well, pretty's the wrong adjective. What do you mean, a pretty writer? How about like an adept or I don't know, good? I don't want to pick up a lowbrow adjective, but pretty?" And I hated that. I never wanted to be ever associated with exterior and my internal abilities and skills. And so anyway, I wrote and wrote and wrote everything, but a book for a long time, I wrote blogs and I would help people. And I would write papers for Olivia and her friends when they were in high school and resumes in the newspapers and magazine articles. But when I really sat down to think about writing a book, I was afraid, because to me, if writing is the one thing that I have been hearing for so many years, that I'm good at, and I should do the shoulds. And if this is the skill set, the God given spiritual gift that I have, man, if I mess this thing up, then who am I? Then what does that leave me if I really suck? And I'm terrible at it. So it took a while and Olivia actually is the reason that I did it. That girl, I often tell people, too, I learn more from her as my daughter that I'm sure I've imparted to her then she's learned from me. So she said," Mom", I was in a corporate sales job for 25 years. I automate business automated past tense business processes and would go into organizations and basically just help them with their organizational structure, in business process, which I love, I have a high acumen for business process. And so I left that world because I said," I'd like to take a sabbatical to write a book." And that was at Olivia's doing, her prodding of me. She said," Mom, in between my undergrad", she went to NYU in between undergrad and graduate school." Can I live with you guys", because I am married again, third, time's a charm, and" Can I live with you guys in Grand Rapids until I figure out where I'm going to go for grad school", so she's working and so forth. And I'm like," Absolutely." So she goes," Mom, this might be the last time that we ever are like under the same roof living together", and she's like," And we get along now."

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Bonus.

Beth Fisher: Yeah. She's like," So, maybe you should walk away from your job, write the book. She was my consummate encourager. She gave me, I think it was for mother's day, last year, Eat, Pray, Love. And on the inside wrote mom, I hope you find your Eat, Pray, Love moment as you write your own book. And I'm like" This girl."

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Oh, that gives me chills.

Beth Fisher: She's awesome. So that's how I did it. And I wrote it and I use a lot of our examples in there not super personal, but real- world enough that I think that it relates and resonates with people who are like going through difficult times or struggling with authenticity. You have to learn to lose and deconstruct, because I always, same with religion, everything that you thought you heard, everything that you thought you should be, or it was the right way to do things or the constructs that say you should function like this inside of this. And I'm like," Well, what if you don't?"

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right.

Beth Fisher: Then what?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Absolutely. And you just spoke to what I said earlier about the hardest part about being yourself is the vulnerability that it takes. What if somebody doesn't like that about me, myself and I am suffering that same vulnerability. We've got that writer thing in common and I too wrote tons of blogs and business things, but just sent my first book to, well, second book. I didn't do anything with the first one, to an editor and I'm waiting for that feedback in the next couple of weeks. And this is a really weird time because she's going to send that back to me and tell me what she liked and didn't like about it. And so I'm enjoying the break of not thinking I should be writing or working on the book, but there's also this trepidation of underlying, undercurrent of fear of what's about to get back to me.

Beth Fisher: Right. And I'll tell you, I did a book blast. So I was onsite with a publisher in my editor and I had 17, I thought 17 or 18 chapters already written. So my job was to keep ahead of them. And while they edited and so forth. And once I understood what redlining was, I'm like, well, red's, now my least favorite color in the world, but what was so hard is you're right. You want somebody to take your story and your experiences and your journey and your hurts and pains, and basically affirm them in our case, through our writings and through our words, instead of just when they red line I'm like," But that actually happened." And she's like," But you can't say it that way." I'm like," But that's how I feel." And it wasn't necessarily like a grammatical change that upset me as much as content change. It was more like, but that is what happened to me. And thankfully, most of it was grammatical and out of the gate because it was with a Christian publisher. She's like," You can't say shit", I'm like," What do you mean?"

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: But I just didn't say shit, so.

Beth Fisher: I know! I go," but I used an asterisk, S- H- asterisk. Why can't I use this word?" And I still tell people on my podcast, on my show, I'm like, I am the woman that will remind you. You're not going to hell for saying, hell.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah.

Beth Fisher: It's not about that. It's about wielding are our words and our gifts to help other people. And if you're going at people, different story.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: That's a different story. And remind us, again, what's the definition of the word remorseless?

Beth Fisher: It means without guilt, in spite of wrongdoing, without guilt, in spite of all the things in your past that you've done wrong. And our past could be like 10 minutes ago. But what it means is you can't move forward and be authentic for the greater good do good works that we're called to do. If you're still stuck back there and remaining heavy, ladened heavy burdened in guilt. Guilt's a horrible thing to carry with us. It's too heavy, much too heavy.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It has ramifications in physiological ways, spiritual ways, emotionally, every aspect of our lives. It impacts it. And you and I gala about this often the only thing we all have in common, the only common human experience we is our imperfection. The fact that we've all done stuff we shouldn't have. And we did, and here we still are. And so I love the title and I love looking up the definition of words. That's how I became just passionate about the difference between striving and thriving. When I looked at the definition of striving was battling conflict, I was like," Well, that explains a lot." We've used it as a moniker of success forever. And so knowing the definition of remorseless and then being able to step back and say," Oh, this isn't a fancy, smancy, airy fairy word. This is our human experience."

Beth Fisher: It is, it is. Yeah. And so, I also, so that went through a publisher and I self published recently, which I'm almost even a little prouder of the companion workbook. And so that's on Amazon as well, but it's the journey of finding yourself. So it's the remorseless workbook, right? Again, learning to lose labels, expectations, and assumptions and finding yourself because it's one thing to say, how do I not lose myself? How do I put up the right defense mechanisms? So that I'm still an open human being, open to love, open to learning, open to life, but yet how do I do that and not lose myself at the expense of all those things. And then the workbook is like actually putting actionable tools in place. Real reminders is what I call them real reminders and a self hangout. Because one of the things that I never did as a super independent autonomous person was take time for me because I was so busy, pleasing everybody else like," Oh, you want to hang out? Sure. I'm there. Oh, I'm going to go work. I'm going to go, go, go." But I never connected with myself. And now that's my time. I don't waiver up from that.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah. This week marks the seven year anniversary of a two months, stint of pneumonia that I had seven years ago. And it was the first time as an adult I remember being still, and it was a gift. It was wrought with pain and coughing and pulled muscles from coughing and ridiculousness. But it was forced stillness. And I will never, ever go back to a life that I don't incorporate stillness as a part of my practice.

Beth Fisher: Yep. And I am thankful for all that stuff too. I think many people, when you ask them," Hey, what was the best thing of 2020 for you?" A lot of people say the same thing because crosstalk.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: ...finally got it.

Beth Fisher: Yeah. I think it'll take some time, but...

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Well thank you for being here. And I want people to continue to connect with you. You do personal and professional coaching. You've got the workbook that people can buy and the book, how can people find you, follow you? The podcast, you've got lots of great resources and things for people. What's the best way for people to find you and all that you're doing?

Beth Fisher: Yeah. Thank you. The best way, Bethfisher.com. It's all on my website. The media is there, the books are there, contact me as their coaching is all there. So yeah, I would love to do that. One of my favorite things in life is just to empower women of all ages, to say, you can do this show up exactly who you are. You want to know how to navigate corporate. We can talk about that, navigate a marathon, navigate adversity, divorce, cancer, like just show up and get through it. It all starts with inner work. And so I enjoy it. And I think if I would have had people, women, strong women come alongside me at points in my journey when I needed it the most, I don't really wonder what the outcome would be because I'm thankful for those experiences. But I do look back and say," Man, that would've been useful."

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Amen.

Beth Fisher: Thank you.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Thanks for being here.

Beth Fisher: Yeah. I loved it. Thanks for having me.

Outro : I'm not coming down.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Thanks so much for being here. As I said, don't forget to jump into the online community, Badasswomen'scouncil. community and check out the masterclass. I mean, what would it be like if four times a month you had scheduled to jump on a Zoom call to have a real conversation. This isn't speakers coming in to talk at you. This is you engaging in conversation with other high achievers around topics related to health, wealth, and leadership. I brought in three amazing masters to work with me. We're going to cover your uniqueness, both in mindset, gifts, talents, and abilities, as well as the weekly rhythm that you work in. And we have Eliza Kingsford, who's going to talk about brain power to health. We have Alyssa Barton Bach. Who's going to talk about the combination of courage and resilience for leadership and Emily Shaw, who's going to talk about the psychology of sales because we're all selling something. The topics will be rich, the relationships will be unmatched and don't just need some new energy in your life right now? So come on in. We'd love to have you.

Outro : I'm not coming down, I never liked it on the ground. I'm not coming down, I want to go higher, higher than this.