Talking Through the Sea of Uncertainty

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This is a podcast episode titled, Talking Through the Sea of Uncertainty. The summary for this episode is: <p>This week's episode is a collaboration with Tiffany Sauder's podcast, Scared Confident. You'll listen to a discussion between Tiffany and life coach Nathaniel McGuire, where he interviews Tiffany and her fears. Listen now as she digs deep into her fears in this vulnerable and insightful conversation.</p>
What Tiffany Made Herself Fearful of
01:02 MIN
Telling Yourself the Truth
01:54 MIN
Experience Truth Made Free
01:48 MIN
How You Know When Someone Has A Call in Their Life
01:51 MIN
Your Faith Grows as You Use Your Gift
01:20 MIN
What is Fear Telling You?
01:36 MIN

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: (singing) Hey, this is Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, host of the Badass Women's Council podcast. I couldn't be more excited about today's episode, because it is a collaboration with another badass woman that I respect so greatly. Tiffany Sauder has launched a podcast called Scared Confident. Tiffany is the CEO of Element Three... isn't that she's the CEO with tons of awards and accolades for her accomplishments. It's her heart and her character and her guts to put out this podcast called Scared Confident, where she wants to vulnerably start a conversation, or continue a conversation, be part of a conversation about what it means to stand and face your fears and let that be one of the key components to building our confidence; because we all have them. We al have fears, and we talk about it on this podcast incessantly. I often call it uncertainty, and we talk through the sea of uncertainty. Tiffany reached out to be recently during the Stand Tall In Your Story event and said, " Hey, let's do a collaboration." That to me is the marker of an amazing human who says, " Hey, we're each doing similar things with this podcast and embracing women and community. Wouldn't is just be great if we did it better together?" So we did a little bit on stage at the Stand Tall In Your Story event. She is now going to be broadcasting the stories from the participants of season two's event on her podcast, Scared Confident, for this next season. So please, please, please go right now and subscribe to Scared Confident and make sure that you are in tune with this wonderful woman that I am so blessed to call my friend. Today's episode I borrowed from her, the very first episode when she launched her podcast. This is really profound, and I'm just going to call it what it is. It's deep, y'all, episode of a fear interview that she did with Nathaniel McGuire who's a life coach and a marriage and family councilor. What Nathaniel has done with Tiffany, he has interviewed her and actually interviewed her fears. They describe this much better than I am right now, so I'm just going to let the episode speak for itself. But in this time, you're going to see... you're not going to see. It's a podcast. You're going to hear Tiffany really dig deep into her fears, and I couldn't be more excited to share this with you and just release how vulnerable and beautiful this interview is. Okay, enough from me. Let's go.( singing)

Nathaniel McGuire: All right, Tiffany. This is the Fear Interview, and the most important thing is to make a distinction between you and fear. You are ear, you are not Tiffany, and we're asking Fear about Tiffany.

Tiffany Sauder: I'm your host, Tiffany Sauder, and this is Scared Confident. You're about ready to hear my interview, my Fear Interview with Nathaniel McGuire. Nathaniel's a life coach, a marriage and family councilor here in Indianapolis. In this experience, he asks you to take on your fear, to actually step in and take on the personality of your fear and talk to yourself in the third person. As you listen in on my Fear Interview with Nathaniel, and as he's asking me these questions and walking me through the process, I just invite you to put yourself in that seat, to ask yourself the same questions. What is fear saying to you? Where are you letting fear take control of your self perception, of your dreams, of the things that you believe about yourself?

Nathaniel McGuire: So, Fear, what is the situation where it's easy to influence or cause Tiffany to worry or panic?

Tiffany Sauder: I can get Tiffany's attention when she has a really big idea about something and she starts to think through anticipation and what might happen. Then, she starts to think about what other people might think of that and through the lens of their expectations.

Nathaniel McGuire: So you get her to worry about the unknown, what might happen and what others are thinking?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Also, I can get Tiffany to also think about why she's not qualified. She starts to see the things in her life that would make her blemished in such a way that she doesn't deserve to walk into that opportunity or to that idea.

Nathaniel McGuire: What is it you specifically tell her is going to happen in that situation where she presents or has a big idea, what's going to happen?

Tiffany Sauder: (silence) I think that I help her see that these things might create distance between her and people around her. It's easier for me to get her to think about the things that don't qualify her to make it happen. One of the things I've realized, there's three notes in the last three months that people have written me that were thanking me for something profound, giving me feedback in the good job that I did in 2020 in leadership. Another one was an employee that was departing that was sharing that this was like... working at Element Three changed her life. It took me probably three weeks to have the courage to open up any of those notes. I can't make sense to myself about why, but it's somehow conntected to this whole thing.

Nathaniel McGuire: So what did you tell Tiffany about what was going to be written in those notes? What did you tell her? What did you make her fearful about?

Tiffany Sauder: I think I make her fearful that she can't handle the praise, that it's going to become about her. There's something about being able to distinguish between me, Tiffany, her life... inaudible, as a vessel for good and helping Tiffany always remember that you don't deserve a bunch of great things to happen to you and if they do, it's going to change you. It's going to be all- consuming to you, and it's going to create distance between you and the people that you love.

Nathaniel McGuire: You tell Tiffany that praise, compliments, can make her arrogant and that she is going to become arrogant-

Tiffany Sauder: Yes.

Nathaniel McGuire: ... ifshe accepts too much praise.

Tiffany Sauder: Yes.

Nathaniel McGuire: You're constantly making her fearful about accepting good compliments, anything that could cause her to refrain from being humble is what you're telling her?

Tiffany Sauder: Correct. It's much more comfortable for Tiffany when things are hard and painful.

Nathaniel McGuire: That's what you tell her?

Tiffany Sauder: Mm- hmm(affirmative).

Nathaniel McGuire: She believes that?

Tiffany Sauder: She does believe that.

Nathaniel McGuire: What do you tell her about what God believes about her? What do you say to her about God? What do you make her fearful about?

Tiffany Sauder: I can distract her in that God is a... in getting her to forget about his mercy and to get her to focus on works. I can distract her with a lot of busyness so that she doesn't spend time on her heart. I can use fear, I can show up in a way that makes her believe that she'll disappoint people if she doesn't show up for them physically, that there's just a lot of physical work to be done, I guess.

Nathaniel McGuire: When it came to those notes, it sounded as if you knew there were good things in those notes. You actually knew that there were going to be some compliments in those notes. Did you tell Tiffany that?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes.

Nathaniel McGuire: But you made her afraid of those good compliments by telling her if she reads those, it might make her become arrogant, and then what will she lose if she becomes arrogant?

Tiffany Sauder: I tell her she's going to lose her discernment. I tell her that she's going to lose relationships. I tell her that she's going to lose her ability to be able to be impactful. Some degree, she's going to lose some of herself.

Nathaniel McGuire: What happens when she listens to you? How does that make her feel?

Tiffany Sauder: She holds back. She stops.

Nathaniel McGuire: What does that do to her energy?

Tiffany Sauder: It brings here down. It gives her a bad day or a bad morning, or a bad start.

Nathaniel McGuire: So it sounds like you talk to Tiffany a lot, constantly telling her that she better not accept too much praise or too many compliments, or she's going to become this terrible person.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm- hmm(affirmative).

Nathaniel McGuire: And when you do that, it causes her to hold back. It causes her to lose energy and to feel down. What do you think she would do if she knew the difference between her own thoughts and you telling her these things? For instance, when it came to those notes, if she knew that this was you, it was not her, what would she do? How long would it have taken her to open those notes?

Tiffany Sauder: She probably would've opened it on a normal pace, like a day or an hour, depending on when she saw it first. It became something that I got her to work around.

Nathaniel McGuire: And how long did it take her to open those?

Tiffany Sauder: Weeks.

Nathaniel McGuire: What else are you, in her life, making her take weeks to do that she would do at a normal time if you weren't in her life?

Tiffany Sauder: I used to be able to use her fear of conflict, not so much conflict, but her fear of the truth. But that doesn't work as well as it used to.

Nathaniel McGuire: So what are you up to now in her life? What are you attacking her about lately?

Tiffany Sauder: I try to make her feel small.

Nathaniel McGuire: But why? What are you up to? Tell her. What's her big idea that you're after right now?

Tiffany Sauder: Trying to give purpose to the last 20 years.

Nathaniel McGuire: And what are you after as she's trying to do that? What are you trying to do?

Tiffany Sauder: I'm trying to slow it down.

Nathaniel McGuire: Do you tell her that?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. I definitely tell her that. I definitely tell her that your friends might make fun of you. Definitely tell her that the people who know you most won't believe it, won't care, won't support it.

Nathaniel McGuire: It sounds like you're pretty relentless. Isn't there a part of Tiffany's life that you know is actually inspiring to people?

Tiffany Sauder: I know that she has a God- given gift of communication and being able to make big things in life simple and relatable. I know that she has that ability.

Nathaniel McGuire: But isn't that a compliment? That's a good thing. You don't allow her to accept praise. You just said something really good about her. Isn't she supposed to protect herself from a good compliment like that?

Tiffany Sauder: (Silence) I think that... ( silence) one of the other things that I distract her with is, like her husband knows her best and I tell her that he won't understand why you need to go on this journey.

Nathaniel McGuire: What do you tell her is going to happen if she goes on this journey?

Tiffany Sauder: That speaking the truth about what life really looks like is going to leave me alone... is going to leave her alone, and that we're asked to pick between going along with the bullshit of what people want you to say about them, or stepping into truth and being alone. And as fear, I tell her just go with the easy narrative, just stick with the program and nobody gets hurt.

Nathaniel McGuire: But you're lying because you're hurting Tiffany already. You're causing her to be more alone by not telling the truth, because what is it you know about the truth, Fear? Tell us. What does the truth do?

Tiffany Sauder: Sets you free.

Nathaniel McGuire: That's right. You know that, don't you? And you know that Tiffany is an amazing communicator. Who gave Tiffany that gift to communicate?

Tiffany Sauder: God.

Nathaniel McGuire: And what does God want her to do with that gift?

Tiffany Sauder: He wants her to speak truth to make it normal and okay, that you can be exceptional and blemished at the same time.

Nathaniel McGuire: So lately you're being pretty relentless, aren't you, with Tiffany? Constantly attacking her mind, telling her that she's going to be alone, people aren't going to understand. I mean, you're basically saying she's going to hurt everybody, aren't you?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes.

Nathaniel McGuire: When you told her and made her afraid to open up those letters and you told her what was going to happen when she opened them up, did that happen? Did she become arrogant and become a terrible person? Did those things happen?

Tiffany Sauder: No, they didn't.

Nathaniel McGuire: So you lied to her?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes, I did.

Nathaniel McGuire: So you're pretty deceptive?

Tiffany Sauder: That's what I do.

Nathaniel McGuire: Deceive and lie? When is the first time you came into her life when she was young and made her very fearful of what others think?

Tiffany Sauder: When she was in sixth grade. She was picked on, partially for her body and... partially for her naïve kindness. It was a situation where there were two schools who came together in middle, so just the friend dynamics changed a lot that year for her. As she resumed and stepped into friendships like they were before, and they had changed and kids were mean to her. I helped her see that sometimes it's just better to be invisible and to not step into your leadership, to just go with what other people say.

Nathaniel McGuire: So, that's the problem. You've been with her for a long time telling her how to be safe and never to go through that again, to be treated like that. Bullied... really...

Tiffany Sauder: Excluded.

Nathaniel McGuire: Yeah. That's one of her greatest fears, isn't it?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

Nathaniel McGuire: To be mistreated, excluded, set apart, and so you're telling her that this big idea could cause her to be that nerdy life insurance girl again, huh? Ostracized, looked down upon.

Tiffany Sauder: Left by the people you thought were your friends.

Nathaniel McGuire: That's what you're telling her is going to happen?

Tiffany Sauder: Mm- hmm(affirmative).

Nathaniel McGuire: Actually, you have her reliving this already in her mind, don't you? Something that hasn't even happened, that-

Tiffany Sauder: Subconsciously, yes.

Nathaniel McGuire: Tell us where she's at and what she's doing. When you try to make her fearful, you tell her lies, you tell her her big ideas, all the bad things that are going to happen. You try to stop her progress and she doesn't listen to you. What is she doing? Where is she at? What's going on where she just doesn't listen to you when you tell her these things?

Tiffany Sauder: When she's surrounded by people who understand the vision, when she's surrounded by people who she can see in micro- moments are connecting to what she's been through, when she has the courage to say her fears, it gives me less room to live. It's when they're quiet and hidden that I have the most power.

Nathaniel McGuire: So the very thing that gives her power, speaking these things, talking openly about you with people she's conntected with and love, that's the very thing that gives her strength to overcome you?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes.

Nathaniel McGuire: Do you tell her that?

Tiffany Sauder: No.

Nathaniel McGuire: No, you don't. It sounds like what... she was bullied in school, I mean, and mistreated. Aren't you bullying her? Aren't you constantly telling her what to be afraid of and what not to do? Aren't you causing her to lose energy, to feel down on certain days and to be stagnant in certain areas and you're relentless?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

Nathaniel McGuire: Aren't you the very thing that her gifted communication helps people to overcome you and she overcomes you by doing that?

Tiffany Sauder: That's why I attack it so fervently.

Nathaniel McGuire: Yeah, ever since she was a little girl. It's almost as if you know if she operates in her gift, she will overcome you and inspire other to overcome you. Is that true?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes. I also tell her, " You think you might see what truth is, but you might be wrong, so keep your mouth shut."

Nathaniel McGuire: Fear is so deceptive. What would Tiffany do if she could tell the difference between her own thoughts and you? What would she do about you?

Tiffany Sauder: I think she'd just steamroll me, because she'd be able to get momentum. She'd shut me down.

Nathaniel McGuire: Yeah, because even with you in her life, didn't she still accomplish quite a lot, even with you harassing her, right? So if she could distinctly tell when it was you, yeah, she would steamroll you. You know that, don't you?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. I know that when I make her world small and she focuses on herself, that it stops her.

Nathaniel McGuire: But you still can't really totally stop her, can you?

Tiffany Sauder: No, I can't.

Nathaniel McGuire: You can throw up roadblocks, but you can't stop her.

Tiffany Sauder: Right.

Nathaniel McGuire: You can just torment her because you can't stop her, so you might as well torment her while she's doing all these things that she's created to do. You're really coming after her right now with this big idea, because you hate that idea, don't you?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, I do, because it starts to normalize fear for a lot of people.

Nathaniel McGuire: Can she live without you?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes, she can.

Nathaniel McGuire: Do you tell her that?

Tiffany Sauder: No.

Nathaniel McGuire: What would her life be like without you?

Tiffany Sauder: Her life would be full. Her life would be... satisfying and, to some degree, peaceful. I think she would feel clear if I wasn't there.

Nathaniel McGuire: Do you tell her that?

Tiffany Sauder: No.

Nathaniel McGuire: No? You tell her how you're going to keep her safe. You tell her, she shuts her mouth and she doesn't speak truth to the power, she goes with the status quo, everything will be good, that's what you tell her, right?

Tiffany Sauder: Mm- hmm(affirmative).

Nathaniel McGuire: But I don't hear at all that that makes her feel good, does it?

Tiffany Sauder: No, it doesn't.

Nathaniel McGuire: I hear that you know she's actually gifted to do all these very things that you're trying to stop her from doing.

Tiffany Sauder: Yes, she is.

Nathaniel McGuire: You've been tormenting her for quite some time because you can't stop her, but you are relentless about this new big idea. You're pulling out all the stops. You hate this big idea. Why don't you tell her the truth? What's going to happen when she does this big idea? Tell her what's going to happen.

Tiffany Sauder: She's going to have peace. She's going to have community. She's going to give language to the people who feel invisible, feel seen and like things are... like, life is normalized. She's going to experience people who are attracted to the intimacy that is available when there's transparency and, perhaps, some people who choose not to live in that world. She's going to experience truth made free.

Nathaniel McGuire: Yep. You don't tell her that though, do you?

Tiffany Sauder: No.

Nathaniel McGuire: So that's pretty amazing, isn't it? She's going to do that, isn't she?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, she's going to do that.

Nathaniel McGuire: Isn't she pretty amazing?

Tiffany Sauder: Oh...

Nathaniel McGuire: Tell her. She's pretty amazing, isn't she?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, she's amazing.

Nathaniel McGuire: Yeah. You don't like to say that, do you?

Tiffany Sauder: I don't like to say that.

Nathaniel McGuire: No, you don't. But if I said some terrible things about her, you could say that, huh? You don't mind her taking terrible comments, huh?

Tiffany Sauder: It's more comfortable.

Nathaniel McGuire: Yeah. That's what you tell her. Is that really comfortable? If she saw her daughter and a bunch of people saying terrible comments, and she saw you trying to tell her daughter that it's comfortable, what would she say about that?

Tiffany Sauder: "Get out of my way."

Nathaniel McGuire: Thank you. You're trying to make her comfortable listening to you tell her terrible shit about herself, right?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes.

Nathaniel McGuire: Does God tell her to live like that?

Tiffany Sauder: No.

Nathaniel McGuire: Doesn't he says things like she's fearfully and wonderfully made and no weapon formed shall prosper, and greater is he that is in her than he that is in the world? He says those type of things, right?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes.

Nathaniel McGuire: She can do all things through Christ and things like that, like these powerful statements.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm- hmm( affirmative).

Nathaniel McGuire: So it's you putting her down and making her think it's more comfortable to be that way. Really, you have her convinced that the reason she's made it this long and this far being a humble person is because she listens to you?

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

Nathaniel McGuire: You leave out her whole spirituality, don't you?

Tiffany Sauder: Mm- hmm(affirmative).

Nathaniel McGuire: Isn't that why Tiffany has made it to this place that she is and the success that she has, because she has faith? Isn't that why? Do you ever tell her that?

Tiffany Sauder: I don't remind her of that, no.

Nathaniel McGuire: Doesn't her faith that she really holds to have things like the Golden Rule that maybe other religious people don't listen to, but Tiffany actually believes in treating others as she wants to be treated? Doesn't that make her humble?

Tiffany Sauder: Yes, it does.

Nathaniel McGuire: But you don't tell her that?

Tiffany Sauder: No, I don't.

Nathaniel McGuire: I want you to share with us the kind of things you say to Tiffany to humble her, the kind of names you call her. What is it you say to demean her to make her feel so- called humble in your book, that she needs to remember and always hold onto? What kinds of things are you saying to her about herself? Tell her.

Tiffany Sauder: You're not enough and also that you're... that you're prideful, that you could do more, that you're lazy... ( silence) Those are probably the biggest ones, yeah, that you're lazy and... probably that you're a little bit sheltered and stupid in the sense that you grew up in a small town. She hasn't seen a lot of stuff, and so there's a lot that you don't know about, so don't think you know everything.

Nathaniel McGuire: Naïve.

Tiffany Sauder: Naïve.

Nathaniel McGuire: Same thing they called her when she was a little girl.

Tiffany Sauder: Holy crap. So is this self- protection too, because I've actually... you could find me on four podcasts telling this story where the first recession,'09, Element Three hit a brick wall, basically, had a yard sale of like... kind of crashed. I tell people, I say, " I got through that, basically, by saying,'Okay, what's the worst thing that could happen?'" I was like, " Well, the worst thing that happens is Element Three goes belly up, I don't know, if I can't go through inaudible, I spend give years of my life making a decent income to pay off the debt I owe. And then we sell our house, or the bank forecloses on it, and we end up in one of our parents' basement. That's the worst thing that could happen." And I'm like, " I could live with that. I guess I'll just keep going." Is that a healthy way of dealing with fear, or is that giving the lie power?

Nathaniel McGuire: It's interesting because when you tell that narrative, the truth is, there still isn't any unknown. There's no unknown to that, so even when you name that, I still hear faith because you're naming the worst case and you're saying it's not that bad.

Tiffany Sauder: Right.

Nathaniel McGuire: See? So to me, that's not necessarily fear. Fear causes you to fight, flight, or be paralyzed. You were still operating saying, " Fear, that's not shit. That's all you got for me? So what?" That's-

Tiffany Sauder: I think that's how I bring it into command, when my experience, when I arrest power from the worst case and say, " Well, we're going to deal with that then," what happens is we find people who have been through that and we take one step at a time, and we explore God's... in that way, in a way that we never expected life would need to bring to us, but if that happens then we deal with that. That's what we do. But I'm not going to spend my energy... I find in my own mind if, until I arrest control over, I'm spending so much time driving around fear that I lose my bearings and I get really distracted. When I can arrest back power and say, " No, I am not going to let you take all these detours. I'm not going to allow you to steal the moments I do have. I'm not going to allow you to distract me from the things that are in my control. I'm not going to do that." So... I don't know. Is that?

Nathaniel McGuire: There's a distinct difference. One, you're naming the unknown and then you're going into the unknown and saying, " But I can handle that." And I can hear other people, what you're about to do, give testimony that they went through that and made it. The other one, you're naming the unknown and saying, " I can't handle that. What if this happens and this happens and this happens?" So when you talked about your big idea and the unknown and the things that could happen, you become paralyzed and say, " Well..." And yours, this is how you know yours is a calling. I look at yours like, " I don't have a choice. I'm going to do that, but let's put it off as long as possible and let's become perfect. Let's get everything right, because I got to go there." That's how you know when someone has a call in their life. In one, you're naming the unknown and saying, " I can do it. It'll be terrible, but I'll do it." The other one, you're saying, " No, that'll destroy everything. I can't. I cannot handle that." You can name the unknown and name these fears, because the other thing is, it's not necessary to speak them either, to keep speaking the worst case scenario over your life so it won't catch you off guard when it happens. There's a power that starts to come in that, too, like, let's not even do that. But the truth is, the way you do it, you'll name all those things. You're like an insurance agent. You'll name them all.

Tiffany Sauder: Legit.

Nathaniel McGuire: "How much are all these going to cost? Let's put a plan together, but I'm going to name them all, because that's my business, but I can handle it," versus, " I hear them all and I cannot." That's what is starting to become paralyzing. That's how I know, because fear fixates on what's most important. That's how I know it's like a map of what you're created or supposed to do, because it's putting all of its energy there. Now, I'm like, " Thank you, Fear. You just told me what I'm supposed to be doing, like that you're actually scared of that. You don't care if I don everything else. You just don't want me doing that. So what do you know? You're a liar." You know that Fear's whole goal really, it's not really after you, it's after your gifts. That's what it really wants. The major gift is faith, that that's how you overcome fear is faith. Period. That's why that's the first thing that people begin to question. It has to dismantle your faith, and people think that it has to be an Allah or Jesus, no. We've all been giving an essence of faith and it's up to us how to maximize it. We can't get in an elevator, if you don't have faith. You can't get in a car, if you don't have faith. You would think you're going to die and you'd be paralyzed. We all have faith. It's how we use and exercise it. We learned with you, you get faith from being conntected with people and sharing with them. This is actually where your faith comes from, and that makes sense because you're a leader. Your faith actually grows as you use your gift, but the other things is, as you spend time with your creator, just embracing unconditional love and that you don't have to do anything, you don't have to work, you don't have to do works or something. You don't have to perform for God, but just sitting in God's presence and know that Tiffany's loved unconditionally and she does these things because she is loved; but she doesn't do these things to get loved. Tiffany, what you're going to do now is you need a fear statement. It means that every time Fear begins to talk to you, that you say this statement. It can be anything. It can be a paragraph. It can be something as simple as, " Not today, inaudible." But you're going to use this every time now, that you become conscious that it is not you brainstorming, it is not you processing or thinking or meditating, that it is fear. You know that it's fear because it told you what it does to you. It makes you think that somehow you're going to do something to be rejected. It makes you fixate on what others think about you, and it tells you you're not worthy. Then, it causes your energy to be drained. Every time that you are feelings these things, you now know that this is not Tiffany, this is Fear talking to you and you say this statement back to it out loud or in your mind, but you say this statement. What is that statement for you, that you need to say back to Fear?

Tiffany Sauder: Dear Fear, I will not let you distract me from the fact that I am a complete and whole child of God. I will not alow you to distract me with being consumed about what others might think, with the narrative that I'm lesser than, with the narrative that God can't possibly work through a vessel like me. Fear, I seek to kill you. I seek to destroy you so that you no longer have the ability to do that to me. Fear, I know that God has placed and stitched talents inside of my being in a way that his jealous heart desires me to use those in a way that bring glory to him, the way that I can serve those around me. And I will not allow you to distract me with the lie that I'm doing that for selfish gain. Fear, I am free of you and today I will choose to not live under you.

Nathaniel McGuire: "You will not distract me with the lie that this is for selfish gain." That's the essence of it. That's what it constantly tells you. "You will no distract me with the lie that it's for selfish gain." What you said, that was more of a letter to fear. But if you sum it up, what is a quick statement you'll say?

Tiffany Sauder: I think the thing that you summarized, which is like, I am not doing this for selfish gain. Speaking that out loud allows me to discern between honest pursuit of my talents, and I would say, just natural ambition behind that because it gives me energy. Then, I feel myself being like, " Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't you go being..." Like, " Don't you go being great at that." That's what I feel like, and I'm just pulling the reigns back, like, " Come on back up..." And then I'm like, but it gives me so much energy and I have all these ideas. And it's like... Then, I'm just fighting with myself. So I think being able to say that declaratively, and somewhat pray it over my own heart so that that... and finding people who can keep me honest to that, I think, is a more realistic safeguard than just fighting inside my own head and practicing releasing that.

Nathaniel McGuire: When you leave here today, guess what Feal will be saying to you.

Tiffany Sauder: I left some stuff out. Didn't quite do it right and there's a whole lot more other than the thing we found, so buckle up, buttercup.

Nathaniel McGuire: Just relentless, right? This is what is different today. The great news is, Tiffany, you're not the problem. Fear is the problem, and the second one is there's no way you can be the same, because you have just heard Fear using your thoughts and your voice to communicate with you, and you didn't know that before. Now when it talks, it may get a couple words in, but nails on a chalkboard, you'll start to hear like, " Ah, that's you again. I am not talking to you, and you are not my friend. I don't need you anymore. It was never you that got me to the place that I'm at." You'll hear that and you'll be able to make a distinction. If you're walking down a path, it goes right and left, you get a discernment and peace about going left, you start to go left and Fear jumps out and says, " Boo!" What does that mean?

Tiffany Sauder: I'm on the right path.

Nathaniel McGuire: That's right. That's right. Now fear is my indicator.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. It's so fascinating.

Nathaniel McGuire: It tells me what to do now. Whatever I become overly fearful and anxious about, I'm like, " Thank you, dummy. You just told me what I'm supposed to be doing." It worked a little bit, but now I know for a fact what I'm supposed to be doing. So it becomes an indicator and a superpower when you walk in that. That's why it's so important for you to walk in that, because that confidence overcomes those lies, but as long as Fear can make you think and be insecure, then it can keep telling you that dumb lie that you're going to do something for false gain, like vain. Well, that's not why you do things. If you know that, it becomes laughable. Like, " Fear, You something else. Like, that's silly."

Tiffany Sauder: I think what else is really illuminating to me from this process is when you said, " When you feel fear, it's a green light indicator to run." Even the name of it was Scared Confident, this idea that fear actually is a magnet towards this sense of surety, which feels so backwards to what our less- evolved understanding of what life is about is what it might suggest. I've spent the last couple weeks just reflecting on what I learned from this experience. My big takeaway was that it's hard for me to believe that there is good in me. Fear desperately wants to take the microphone to control the narrative in my head that there's nothing digital in me, that I shouldn't share what I see, that Fear wants to shut me down. My question back to all of you is, what is Fear telling you? What's it saying? Have you captured it? As we step back and take a look and make the decision to arrest control back from Fear, what is it saying to you? I'd love it if you would have the courage and step into community with me. As I think more about this idea of community, I think really what it is is a group of people who have the courage to ask questions so that others, too, can benefit from those. We feel so much more together and less alone when we start to realize these questions that we have of life and of ourselves, we're not the only one asking them. So if you'd be willing to share what you learned, what Fear is telling you, I'd love it if you'd share it with me and text me, (317) 350- 8921, ( 317) 350- 8921. Text me. What's Fear telling you? I'd love to hear and see how we can learn from it.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Thanks for being here today. Thanks for being a part of this special episode and collaboration with Tiffany Sauder and her podcast, Scared Confident. Please go now and subscribe to her podcast, and if you're not subscribed here, do that too. Thanks so much, y'all. Make it a great day.( singing)


This week's episode is a collaboration with Tiffany Sauder's podcast, Scared Confident. You'll listen to a discussion between Tiffany and life coach Nathaniel McGuire, where he interviews Tiffany and her fears. Listen now as she digs deep into her fears in this vulnerable and insightful conversation.