A Company Founded By Women, For Women with Ashley Butler

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Hello. Hey, this is Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, host of The Badass Women's Council Podcast. And I'm super glad that you're here. After every episode, we give you a couple of reflection questions that you can ponder and take with you throughout your day. And then in order to keep the conversation going, you can jump into the online community at badasswomenscouncil. community. Today's episode, we have Ashley Butler, and Ashley's going to challenge the way that we see laundry and prepping food and vacuuming the floor and wrapping Christmas presents and all the stuff that we do in addition to the job and the kids and the stuff. Here we go. Hey, Ashley, how's it going?

Ashley Butler: I'm great. How are you, Rebecca?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Super good. I am excited about this conversation, because when we met, when I left our lunch, brunch, I don't even know what it was, I couldn't stop thinking about the conversation for hours, days. And to me, that's always the one that's like, " We've got to get this on the podcast." So thank you for being here.

Ashley Butler: Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: This topic that we're going to talk about today for high achieving career women, I feel like we almost need people to, we need a little, like take a deep breath, open your mind, consider that things may not be as you've always thought that they were. I feel like we need to be like, " Ohmmm," everybody just take a breath. We're going to talk about things differently. Because we're talking about asking for help, outsourcing things, not feeling like as high achieving career women we're supposed to do it all. How did this topic become part of your world?

Ashley Butler: Oh my goodness. That is a fantastic question. So it starts very personally, like most of our journeys. I was a busy medical student. High- achieving, a medical student doing all the things that you're supposed to do. By the way I also started a business while I was a medical student. This was a different business. I love, love, love to work.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Which makes you the absolute definition of a high achieving career woman. Thank you. Keep going.

Ashley Butler: And the realization that something had to sort of change was the night that my husband said, " Hey, I miss my wife." I didn't realize that I had been working from 6: 00 AM to 5: 00 PM. I gave him an hour in the evenings and then I would work on my business until like 1: 00 in the morning. Go to sleep, get up, do it all over again the next day. And I thought, " Okay, he misses his wife. Cool. How do I fix that?" And I realized that the only time I really gave him outside of that hour window on weekdays was our weekends. But our weekends were being spent taking care of all of this house stuff. And largely because I'm a perfectionist, like most women. He would try to help and then I would correct what he did. And it just sort of turned into this like nightmare sort of relationship, of what our interaction looked like. And I thought, " Something's got to give. There has to be a better way." And so I set out on a search for the unicorn, somebody who could come into my house, help me with my meal prep, I wanted to eat, and not eat out all of the time. I wanted to have a nice home cooked meal with my husband. And it would be really nice if I could just have clean clothes too, that didn't sit in a mountain on top of my laundry, like my washing machine? I thought, okay, those are my goals.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I'm single. I sleep with my clean clothes. It's like my only real relationship. So it provides some really dysfunctional comfort in my world, but yes, I hear you. Keep going.

Ashley Butler: Yep. So I thought, " Okay, all right, cool. I can do this. I can find this person." And it turns out that even when you're interested in asking for help, it's not super easy to find someone who will do anything outside of cleaning your house. And I'll tell you fabulous house cleaners, but they're like, " Not touching laundry. Don't even ask me to do that." So I managed to find this wonderful, wonderful, woman named Sherry. And she came in, she was like, " Cool. Yeah, I've done this for 30 years. I've managed huge homes." And I thought, " Oh, no way in hell I can afford this woman. She's taking care of 20,000 square foot homes with a staff under her." I'm like, " I just need laundry and meal prep." And she was like, " No, I'm looking for more balance in my life. I would love to come in and help you achieve yours." So she started out that way with the laundry and the meal prep, brought more time, more valuable time, to my husband and I, and then she grew into like being my chief operating officer at home. I would always teased I was the CEO, my husband's the CFO. He makes sure I don't spend too much money at Target. That's a real, real, dilemma there for me. And I needed a chief operating officer. I needed this other adult that I could know and trust, and Sherry just she came in and she took it on. And a four and a half years later, here we are.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It was a value to her as much as it was a value to you. That's a part of the story that I really want to highlight today because I think we are so caught up in our own thoughts about this, that we don't realize that when we invite somebody into our home to provide some of this care, we're allowing them to use their unique gifts and talents in a way that they love and appreciate in serving. Because Sherry likes helping you, right?

Ashley Butler: She has a heart for service. She is just an amazing person. And there are a ton of amazing people out there with this heart for service. And so it really fills her up.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: We talk about this a lot on the podcast and any of my clients will refer to this metaphor I use that we're not meant to be all the same, round, shiny, perfect marbles, that don't know how to work together. We are unique pieces of a puzzle, that each of us have gifts and talents that are very different from each other, and it's when we combine those pieces of the puzzle, that two things happen when a puzzle's put together, it's more beautiful and it's stronger together. And so this idea of asking for help isn't because we're not enough, it's because we're saying, " Hey, I've got things I want to do and you've got things you want to do. If we work together, we could both realize a thriving, rewarding life." And I love that idea. I outsource, and have for many years, and the people that work with me, they love leaving my house and knowing it's beautiful and clean. Like Lisa, who has cleaned for me since, oh gosh, probably for 20 years, she'll leave me little notes, and we're friends, and I care about her. She's a significant part of our life. It's partnership. It's not because we're not doing it right.

Ashley Butler: That is exactly right. And I told Sherry, " It's just not my thing." I understand that I have those unique sort of set of attributes I bring to the table and doing dishes is just not it. And that's okay.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: One year I hired Lisa to wrap all of my Christmas presents.

Ashley Butler: I love it. Yes. So, oh gosh, my friends and colleagues are going to listen to this. She writes my Christmas cards.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I love it. I love it. Because you want to send greetings of holiday cheer.

Ashley Butler: Yes.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: But if it was left up to you, it ain't freaking happening.

Ashley Butler: Absolutely. You want to be that person who brings that really thoughtful gift to the house warming party, not the store- bought Kroger apple pie. That's who I was before Sherry. After Sherry, I brought in curated gifts that were very unique to the individual. And it's not because I don't care. I do care. But I love doing what I do best and it doesn't leave for a lot of time to do all of these other really thoughtful things.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And so what I love about your story is you are a doctor. I mean, you've worked as an anesthesiologist. You've done the deal. You went through all of that schooling, you went and practiced medicine, and this Sherry thing just has still been on your heart and so now your doctor turned founder to help other high achieving career women enjoy this and operationalize how you can find help.

Ashley Butler: Yes.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: So it's a thing now, it's a company now.

Ashley Butler: We are a thing, lady. We are a thing.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yay! Tell us about it.

Ashley Butler: The idea, it just kept spinning around in my mind because I would have my physician colleagues, generally they would ask about my food, and they were like, " Hey, that looks great. What are you eating?" And I was like, " It tastes really good. Not entirely sure what it is." They're like, " Cool. How'd you make it?" " Also, didn't do that. Tastes really good, again. Can't tell you more." And they're like, " Okay, so what is happening? "

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Do you have this magical fairy that you wake up in the morning and there's lunch in the fridge?

Ashley Butler: Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Sort of.

Ashley Butler: Exactly. And so we'd talk about it. And I was like, " Well, I have this lady. Her name's Sherry. She helps me." And you get the eye rolls, but also, is it a jealous sort of eye- roll or is it like an eye roll like, " Why aren't you doing all of that?"

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Slacker.

Ashley Butler: Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Or I wish I had that.

Ashley Butler: Exactly. And I would talk to them about it, talk to them about the relationship, and they were like, " Well, where do I get one of these people?" I'm like, " Dude, I don't know, but you cannot have mine."

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And parents are like that with babysitters when their kids are young, like somebody will say, " I need a babysitter." And if you've got a good one, you just put your head down. You're like, " Nope, nope, nope". I get it.

Ashley Butler: I would love to share, but no. Yeah, so I would be like, " My Sherry this and my Sherry that." And they're like, " Well, where do I find a Sherry?" And I would go home and I would talk to Sherry about this, sort of like the ramblings of a working woman to a trusted confidant. That's who she became for me. She goes, " Ashley, everyone needs a Sherry." And I thought, " Well, what if we could bring Sherry to the world?" And so we set out on a mission to create a company, founded by women, for women, that goes full circle. So when we talked earlier about really being able to give back to sort of ensure that those people who are taking care of us are taking care of, we set out to say, " Hey, My Sherry, the name of our company, is going to take care of people. We are a service first, people oriented business." But the foundation of our service is our home coordinators, our Sherry home coordinators, by the way. Yeah. So Sherry is Sherry OG-

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I love that.

Ashley Butler: Because otherwise it's very confusing. And I wanted to create something that was going to give back to the foundation of our service. Take care of the heroes behind the superheroes. There's no way in hell, Rebecca, I could have finished medical school, gone into really intensive training, had one successful business, spun up another business, there is no way I could have done all of that and maintained my relationship with my husband and my family in the way that was really valuable to me without this life- changing force called Sherry. But I wanted to be sure that we were taking care of her and all of the Sherry's after her. So we do cool things like provide paid time off, which largely our domestic labor force does not know. Right?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right.

Ashley Butler: And we give benefits, healthcare benefits and vision and dental and all of those things that I think largely we take for granted.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: So it really is a partnership.

Ashley Butler: It is, 100%.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah. When I work with my clients, I want them to discover their unique personal story. So they can then stand tall in that story and live a life full of soul and emotions and their natural curiosity about their unique gifts, talents, and abilities so they can live a thriving life. Because our brains are hard wired for stories and our brain wants us to thrive. So I help my clients tap into that. And I also have a sponsor for this podcast called Storybook, which is a unique and innovative platform that helps you bring your company stories to life by tapping into the emotional flow and the natural curiosity that we have about your products and services. So check them out. You can go to my website wethrive. live, click on the stand tall in your story link, and see the kind of work they're doing for us, or go to their site, cantaloupe. tv. And there's hundreds of stories there that they've created that you can experience. Check them out. We're so grateful to work with them and for them to sponsor the podcast. Part of the conversation when we met that really stuck with me, because I'm all about how we see situations that drive our behavior and why sometimes we want things but we won't do it and what's the driving force behind it. And one of the things that prevents us high achieving women from looking for help and outsourcing some of these things is our need for control, to put it just simply. Because oftentimes it's that overachieving control mindset that's made us successful and we don't know when and how to turn it off. And I'm always working with my clients saying, " Actually, your control's probably gone too far. Let's look at what happens when you open your hands and your heart and your mind up. What more could you receive if you didn't have a white knuckle grip on every single thing in your life?" And so a few of the things that contribute to this white knuckle grip we have on our lives is some just societal history mindsets about help and domestic help and all of that. And you shared some really great research about that. Could you hit on that again for our listeners?

Ashley Butler: Sure. Yeah. So, My Sherry is on this mission to normalize getting support in the home, for that busy ambitious mama. And so what we know is that a mother, if you are a mother in the United States, in a heterosexual relationship, this sort of egalitarian relationship where things are" separated evenly," we still know that you're 10 times more likely to take care of the childcare, the senior care, the chores, that home management, the scheduling. We know that in an average week, you're going to do 10 hours more of housework. We know that you're two times more likely to manage the entire household, three times more likely to manage kids' schedules. And women have these more sort of time- intensive tasks that we assign ourselves, the cooking, the laundry, the dishes. That is even when you're working full time, even when you're more educated than your male partner. And I think it's really intriguing. It is intriguing to me that we as a society, we have all of this, and it's almost like you see the tip of the iceberg. " Oh, you're a busy physician. You work 55, 60 hours a week. You don't blink twice after you've done 28 hours straight of call and then you go home and you take care of kids and a family. And we're not even giving you credit for the stuff that's under the surface of the water." That iceberg is much, much bigger than what we see on the surface. And so I feel like women are increasingly stressed and depressed and it's because we have this sort of societal construct that says we should do it all, be it all, have it all. Oh, and remember, you're prettier when you smile.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And your husband would like you to come home and show your boobs.

Ashley Butler: Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And you can't be too tired to do that either.

Ashley Butler: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we're saying, " That's bullshit. It's okay to ask for help." We don't think twice about giving ourselves an administrative assistant at work. Don't think twice about it. Why are we still doing as much housework as we were in the'90s, when you have an opportunity here.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And other countries don't necessarily see it like we see it here in the United States. I remember that was part of our conversation too.

Ashley Butler: So it's really interesting. I have, I would say a peer, who she grew up in Colombia and even sort of their middle or average income earners, they have help inside the home. In these nations, these countries, the Philippines, Western Africa. We think of them as" third world," and they're looking at us going, " I don't know what's wrong with you people. Why do you not have help inside of your home? Why is all of this put on the shoulders of your women?" Right?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right.

Ashley Butler: What is wrong with you?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And yet, because of that control thing I said earlier in us high- achieving women, one of the things that I realized I was doing when my kids were younger is I would throw a pile of towels down in front of them while they were watching TV and say, " Fold the towels." Because that's an easy task and I was delegating help and I thought that was great. And then they would hand them back to me or put them in the linen closet and the lines of the towel folds didn't line up and I'd refold the freaking towels. And then all of a sudden I was like, " Oh, I'm the problem here." Because two things happen even when I did ask for help. One, the kids quickly learned that I was going to refold the damn towels anyway so they're no longer incented or excited about doing the job because it seems fruitless, which was true. And so I had to let go of that mindset to say, " What's the real goal here, because last time I checked, there was no award for all of my towels being lined up in the linen closet." And I had to check myself before I wrecked myself on this deal, because even asking for help I wasn't great at what came back or how I managed it or how I thought about it. And this control thing is causing us such stress, which is then manifesting in physical problems and mental health problems, in our relationship issues. It's a really dangerous ripple effect that starts with refolding the towels.

Ashley Butler: Yeah. So to your point, I mean the same thing happened with my husband. He would try to help. And then I was like, " Oh, well, that's not right." At some level it's really about that narrative, the story you tell yourself, and this is your realm of expertise, lady, but it really is about rewriting the story you tell yourself. We have a finite amount of time. It is a limited resource. And I think that what helped me was to understand that in my very limited amount of time, what is worth my time more? Getting home, sitting down on the couch, having a nice glass of wine by the fire with my husband and just relaxing? Or making sure that my linen closet looks exceptional? Right?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right! I'm now a convert. I would rather have dirty counters and a fire pit out back with my kids. I'm a convert, but it took some getting there. And I told you this story, I was one day just completely fed up. And I thought, " I am a productivity guru, because at the time I worked for an organization and I taught productivity and I was a consultant and trainer and the whole thing. And I thought, " I can figure this out." And so I listed all the things that I wanted in my life. Everything from laundry done to prayers said to time doing. It was an inclusive list, including I think I allowed myself six to seven hours of sleep. I didn't even go eight hours of sleep, y'all. It was an inclusive list. And I made a spreadsheet and I hit the sum on it, and it was in that moment I thought, " You can't win this game." I literally was playing an unwinnable game. And I started looking around at my peers. Now at the time I'm in the top 10 of sales performers from my organization. I'm making a lot of money. I'm expected to continue to make a lot of money for them and me. And so that expectation isn't going to die down. The laundry is still going to be done. And I started looking out across my peers and I realized a majority of them were men who had wives at home that were doing a large amount of the work that was on my spreadsheet. And I thought, " Well, this is bullshit." And that's the day it shifted for me. When I saw it in black and white, on a spreadsheet, I was like, " I have got to stop doing this." And that's when I, the person Lisa who was coming into our home and helping clean, other responsibilities were assigned, wrapping Christmas presents, take these returns to Target. I got her her own credit card and she was able to go buy and return things for me. It was like, " Oh, I can fix this problem. This is ridiculous." But then I had to sit down and study, " Where did it come from? Where did the expectation that I had that I needed to do at all come from?" And I'm 55. This was probably 10, 11, years ago that I had this realization. I was raised in a home with largely a stay- at- home mom. And so the story that came into my subconscious, I didn't even say, " Hey, let me adopt this story for myself." It just lived in and around me and became my subconscious reaction to things, that I was to clean and cook and make sure the linen closet looked great and all of those things. And then just like you said, I realized I am not my mother. She's a wonderful human being, but that's not who I am. And so I have to do things differently if I'm going to have quality of life.

Ashley Butler: Yep. That's exactly right. I do, I commend the women, the working women. I mean, my mom worked and she raised kids and she had all of that. And I remember weekends being spent, that's all my mom would do, would meal prep, clean the house. That's how weekends were spent. And I would challenge ourselves sort of to take a step back and to evaluate, the projects, who are the people, that matter the most to us? Is it the linen closet or is it spending time in the park with kids? And it sounds like the person that you found, it's like that unicorn, that Sherry, that Lisa, whoever that is. But those people are few and far between. And when you come to that realization, that, " Okay, cool. I'm going to get that help. I'm going to invite that into my home because I'm worth it. My family is worth it." Well, where the hell do I find it? And we set out on a mission so that people know where they can find trained, vetted, reliable people to invite into your home, which is your haven. We want home to feel like a destination again, because that's what we want. We want to come home and be like, " Oh, I'm home. Not, " Oh, I'm home."

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right. And the second shift of the job starts because I got to take care of the stuff here.

Ashley Butler: Exactly. Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: The haven idea. I mean, even you saying that, and that deep sigh, brought this emotion. And that's the other thing I love for people to realize is we are emotional beings. So if you come home and your house doesn't feel like a haven, you don't get the stress relief that you deserve after a great day at work or a long day at work or whatever value you were providing in your career, to have a place where your cortisol levels actually reduce, they don't increase, is a big part of being able to thrive in your life. And you just saying that brought this emotion of, I love it when I can come home and just feel, " Ahhh. I'm home."

Ashley Butler: Yep. Yep. And I mean, it feels, logically, let me say this, logically it makes sense. You can look at what you earn per hour. Does it make sense for you to do laundry anymore? If you value every hour, if you value every hour as your rate. And I did this math when I was doing my consulting business and a medical student, and I thought, "What do I make an hour consulting? Okay. So it's probably not worth it anymore to do laundry or dishes." If every hour of my day, if I value it at that, because it's something that I can put down in a spreadsheet like you did, playing this unwinnable game, it doesn't make sense anymore. I should outsource that. So logically, cool, we're on board with that idea. Makes sense. It's that emotional component, that sort of deep seated guilt and shame, that little voice inside your head that's like, " Well, Stacy's doing that." No offense to all the Stacy's out there. It's like that voice inside your head, that's like, " Well, why can't you?" And then when you looked at your male colleagues and you're like, " Well, shit, they've got a wife at home." We need a wife at home too.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I used to say that all the time. I used to say, " I want to marry a man, but I really also want a wife, because holy crap." And I love that you talk about it in terms of a business case, or an ROI, because I absolutely think about that from a business perspective. I actually was trying to refinance my home not too long ago. And because I'm an entrepreneur, the amount of extra paperwork that they were asking me to provide was maddening. And I finally did the math and I realized the amount of dollars that I was going to save from the refinance and the amount of time that it was going to take me to gather all their documents, if I went and sold two new coaching clients, I was going to be up on the upside. So I called the lady and I said, " I don't want to refinance anymore." And she goes, " Why not?" And I said, " Because the amount of hours it's going to take me to provide all the crap that you're asking me for, it's no longer a return on investment on my time." And she was like, " Are you kidding?" And I told her the math and and she was like, " Oh." I mean, you can't argue with that. And so the other aspect of it though, is, have you quantified the damage to your relationship when you are stressed out and exhausted. Because you were listening to your husband and he was vulnerable enough to say it to you out loud. Let's just be honest. Not every husband is saying it out loud. They might be feeling it, but they haven't said it. Husband, wife, whatever your spousal relationship is, I'm all about them all, but I really believe that we aren't quantifying the impact of what it means to be exhausted and bitchy with the people we love the most.

Ashley Butler: Yeah. Yeah. And even so, if that relationship sort of" physically lasts", if you're there, but you're not mentally, emotionally there, what does that look like over time? I mean, have we ever stopped to even think about what's left when you pick up the pieces? High achieving women always sort of on the road to the next thing and that's, that's awesome. And if it fulfills a part of you, that's great, but there are other components. And you have to provide yourself time to ensure that you're taking care of those other pieces of that puzzle that is you.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Including you.

Ashley Butler: Including you. Yeah. Like more than six hours of sleep a night. I don't know.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: There's an idea. Well, and the number of clients that have said to me, especially because it's the summer months, " I just need a vacation," when they're feeling stressed. I'm like, " That's bullshit. The last thing you need now is a vacation, because a vacation is not a stress reducing activity. And stress reduction shouldn't be a biannual activity." Stress reduction is a daily stillness practice. It's daily time, with you, for you. And so allowing this business model that you've created with My Sherry is giving you the space to reduce the cortisol levels in your life, to reduce the stress. That allows you to be physically more healthy, it allows you to have more creative ideas, allows you to be more confident in your job. The upside is significant in so many ways. It's almost like a duh factor now that we've had this conversation and I've been just thinking about it and thinking about it since we met. I want everybody to have a Sherry.

Ashley Butler: Well, we are inviting people to come join us.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: But you're also doing it in a very methodical, planned out way, because you don't want to just jump in and sacrifice quality and all of the things that are a part of your business. And I love that about you. So it's limited. You're only taking on so many cohorts at a time? Fair?

Ashley Butler: Yeah. Yeah. So we are a referral or invitation only service, and your listeners will be given access to a code that will allow them to sign up. But we invite, so we've kind of created communities. 20 people can join our service in each sort of cohort. And that's because we want to create this space where people can be like, " Hey, well, I didn't know that my home coordinator could help me with that," but they heard it from another member of our community.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And everybody knows how much I love building community. That's my thing.

Ashley Butler: Yes. And it's really about giving yourself permission, but sometimes in order to do that, to give ourselves that grace, we have to hear it from someone else that we know and trust. And so we are, we have sort of this, it's a standardized fractional house manager. Not everyone needs 40 hours of home care per week.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right, right.

Ashley Butler: But yeah, taking care of some of it allows you to come home and breathe.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Amen. I mean, even a few hours here and there is going to make a significant difference. And you're here in the Indianapolis area where I am. So you're starting here in Indianapolis, but you like I have ideas of expanding into some other cities. So we're going to put some information in the show notes. So if you're not in the Indianapolis area, please go ahead and click the link and contact Ashley because that also gives us a sense of where is there additional interest so as you look at your scaling plans, you've got an idea of where some seeds have been planted.

Ashley Butler: Yes, yes. Please let us know. Where are you are, who you are, and what you need, right?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah. Absolutely.

Ashley Butler: Because everyone needs a Sherry.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Thank you for being here. I'm so excited about this. And now that I know you, I can think of a million reasons how we can partner together, because all of my clients need you. So thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for giving up the big doctor dreams because you saw a need someplace else. And that takes courage. And I want to just take a moment and applaud that because that's something that I also care deeply about is following those nudges in your heart even if they sometimes don't make a lot of logical sense in the moment, it's usually to serve in a much greater way. So thank you for your courage.

Ashley Butler: Well, thank you so much. It's been awesome to be here with you and I can't wait to see what we do next.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Thanks so much for being here. And as always, we have a couple of reflection questions. The first one is, how would you feel having someone else come in and help with some of the responsibilities around your home? And the second one is, what's the old story that you would need to replace in order to outsource some of these things so that you could spend more time with friends, family, and even on your career? Thanks so much for being here and please join the online community at badasswomencouncil. community, where we can continue the conversation and you can meet other badass high achievers like you. Thanks so much. Make it a great day. If you like the music for the podcast go to iTunes, Spotify, wherever you listen to your music and look up Cameron Hession Clouds, you can download the full song there. He's got some other stuff out there as well. And yo, he's my son, be great if you'd go and download some of his stuff.