Managing Our Stress with Eliza Kingsford

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This is a podcast episode titled, Managing Our Stress with Eliza Kingsford. The summary for this episode is: <p>Today's episode is a replay of a session from the Badass MasterClass with Eliza Kingsford. Eliza is a licensed psychotherapist with training in clinical psychology, neuro-emotional technique, and emotional freedom technique. She takes us through what happens to all of the systems in our bodies when stressed and then shares how we can manage that stress. </p>
Focusing on the Symptom Instead of the Circumstance
03:06 MIN
How Our Internal Systems Deal with Stress
02:42 MIN
Hyperactive Mode During the Pandemic
02:36 MIN
The Impact Stress has on Eating, Serotonin Levels, and Ability to Make Decisions
04:17 MIN
Managing the Stress
02:03 MIN
Active Intention and Passive Reactivity
03:29 MIN
Flipping the Script
02:19 MIN

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: (singing) Hello, this is Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, host of The Badass Womens Council Podcast. In today's episode we have a special replay of a session that we do called the Badass MasterClass, and it's a monthly subscription service and it's myself and three other masters, and we do four sessions a month, all virtual, and this session was so powerful that I thought, you know what, I'm just going to throw it out there on the podcast so everyone can appreciate and just soak up this really important information about stress. The master that you're going to hear from today is Eliza Kingsford, and she has a best selling book called Brain- Powered Weight Loss. She's traditionally worked in weight loss and body image, but everything that she does comes from the place of being a licensed psychotherapist, trained in clinical psychology, neuro emotional technique, emotional freedom technique, she gets the brain y'all. She's going to talk to us about our brain and stress, what's happening in our world especially post COVID and what we can do to address stress. I was looking for the right words because traditionally we believe that we have to get rid of whatever's causing us stress, which is usually like kids and a husband and a job, and that's rough to do. If we're not able to remove the stressors, how can we manage our stress? This episode that you're going to hear is a repurposed bit from the MasterClass, on the MasterClass we have lots of people on the line, so some of the sound quality for me not great. Thank you for your patience with that, but I didn't want to just let this one go because I thought it was worth having a little bit of lower sound quality to bring you a great content. Ladies and gentlemen, Eliza Kingsford.( singing)

Eliza Kingsford: ...a licensed psychotherapist, but I mostly work with people on energy psychology, neuroscience, quantum physics, spirituality, nutrition science, on changing how you approach your relationship with food and your body from the inside. Now, that work happens to be my passion, I just happen to love working with people on food and body image, however, the principles that we talk about are applicable to every area of your life and when I'm thinking about this group of women, really successful, high achievers, go getters, what are the things that we as a collective struggle with and I wanted to talk today about stress. One of the biggest things people ask me about is stress eating constantly and about a year ago and the anniversary of what was happening in our world with COVID, I started getting requests from companies to talk about the role of stress in their organization, as it pertained to what was happening in COVID. I did a number of these presentations about what stress really is and how it impacts us and why we should pay more attention to it. If you inaudible on some of the leading researchers on stress and the impact of stress, stress is truly the epidemic of our time and the impact of it has a trickle down effect in every area of our lives, stress in general, what it is, why we should pay attention to it, and then some things that we can do about it. I'll try inaudible ways of, number one, the role it might be playing in your life, whether it was the last year or maybe currently, and then a couple of things that we can do to address it that might be a different mindset shift than how we were thinking about stress before. Today we're going to talk about your brain on stress, why you should care and what you can do about it. I used to think that there were situations that were causing stress and in order to reduce stress I needed to quit my job, get a divorce, have a different job, stop writing a book, and my child needed to be out of the hospital. When we think about reducing stress, we think about it from, what are the big things that we can take away? After researching a lot more and understanding a lot more about the role stress plays in our lives, I realized that we're looking at it all wrong, that's what I want to talk about. The stress is a symptom of the circumstance, but what most of us do is we focus on the circumstance, I'm really stressed out in my job, well, maybe I need a new job. I'm really stressed out in my marriage, well, maybe I need a new husband. I'm really stressed out with my child, well, maybe I'd like to give it away. When we focus on the circumstance and in reality what we should be doing, and what I'll talk more about today is that we should be focusing on the symptom. If the symptom is stress, we need to be focusing on the symptom and not the circumstance. When a doctor says you need to just reduce your stress, we need better ways and better tools to be able to manage the feeling of stress, the emotional stress, the impact of stress, rather than the circumstance itself.... to tell to be less stressed, I thought I had to change the circumstances of my life rather than change my internal landscape. You need to stress less and you're like, " Well, I can't because I have this huge project coming up and I can't do anything about the project and I'm fighting with my husband and I can't do anything about my husband." Let's first talk about the science of stress and what stress really is. You've probably heard this before, stress is when we kick our brain and our body and all of our systems into the sympathetic nervous system. This is when we kick the body into fight or flight response. The parasympathetic nervous system is the, I'm not going to say it's the opposite of that, you'll hear why in a minute, but the parasympathetic nervous system is the state in which we kick the body into rest and digest. This is, take a deep breath, slow down, that's the parasympathetic nervous system. The sympathetic nervous system is activated anytime our body is in fight or flight. Here's the bad news is that, we chronically kick our body into fight or flight sympathetic nervous system pretty much on a daily basis, they've done a number of studies and it's not just when COVID hits and not just when my kid needs a surgery and not just when you lose your job, it is perceived threat or perceived difficult experiences also kick our body into sympathetic nervous system fight or flight. That is happening to us as a culture as a whole pretty acutely these days, meaning it is the compounding effect especially for women of the mental load, it's the trying to do everything I can for my job and take care of my children and make sure I have food in the house so I'm not scrounging for coffee and inaudible, and make sure I'm taking care of myself and make sure I'm exercising and make sure. Mental load kicks us into fight or flight response, kicks on the sympathetic nervous system and it's acute. As you've probably heard before, our systems were designed to deal with stress, we kick the body into fight or flight, every system in the body is affected, the digestive system, the reproductive system, the musculoskeletal system, they all start to divert resources to deal with the stressor. Your digestive system slows down, your reproductive system turns off in that moment, the endocrine system, the nervous system, it all diverts its resources to deal with the stressor and then once the stressor is dealt with, we are supposed to go back to that parasympathetic nervous system into rest or digest where the resources get re- diverted back to where they're supposed to be. The problem is, with acute stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system, we never go back into rest or digest, and what we've been finding in the research over the last, I'm going to call it three decades, we are living in a time where were seeing unprecedented levels of sympathetic nervous system activation on an acute and regular basis. Now, what does that mean to us? What are we supposed to do with that? Well, what we're finding is that, never before has it been more necessary for us to intentionally on purpose, have to activate our parasympathetic nervous system? It's not enough just to say, " Okay, I'm going to try and deal with this stress, it's going to be okay," we have to intentionally on purpose, put in the time and make the space to activate that parasympathetic nervous system because the sympathetic nervous system is being over- activated in an acute way. People will say, " Well, what if I'm not feeling stressed? What if I don't wake up every morning feeling the anxiety symptoms or the depression symptoms of stress?" The answer is, what's happened is that as the body has adjusted to this acute level of sympathetic nervous system signal, we start to interpret it as our homeostasis, that's just the way things are, the world is moving so fast and I'm checking my phone and then it's all coming at me, and so we get almost numb to it. What I can promise you have a routine or a ritual that intentionally kicks you into parasympathetic activated nervous system that you spend a lot of your time in the sympathetic nervous system state. Here's a couple of reasons why, our brains are designed to pick up on danger. The reptilian part of the brain that sits on your brain stem, the little almond shaped reptilian part of the brain was designed to pick up, in hunter, gatherer days when they were in trouble and needed to sense saber- tooth tiger attack, you've all heard those kinds of inaudible before, but what that did was, it refined the part of our brain that is responsible for hyper- vigilance for looking for danger, for paranoia, and so we know that because we're alive, our ancestors had these highly refined hypervigilant paranoia parts of our brain. Some people will say, " Why am I always so good at thinking the negative? It comes naturally." Well, science supports that because we have well- defined parts of our brain and we're designed to think that way so that we would be alive here today. It served as well at that point, it doesn't serve us very well anymore, but our brains have not evolved out of it. Or we're designed to think about danger, think about the last year, think about last year with COVID and the election and the vaccines and the mask wearing and all of that stuff, whether or not we felt stressed in that moment, your brain was on hyperactive mode over the last year of, " Okay, what's next and what's dangerous and what's going on," everybody felt it. The brain was just doing what it's designed to do, however, it does come with the impact of that sympathetic nervous system activation. Last year especially, we had over- activation because we were really worried about these bottom three tiers of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Quite literally for some people there was that physical tier of food, shelter, rest, health. When we have this activation of, " Am I worried about living or dying," we're down in that very bottom tier of our hierarchy of needs. Until we get those needs met, we don't move up to the connection to that second tier, which is security, safety, shelter, stability, well, everybody's jobs are up in the air and they're all moving and shaking, industries are changing, stability starts to get threatened. Until we have that set, now, we can't go up to the social, where you've got need for love and belonging and inclusion, well, now we can't see each other, we're all social distancing. The last year of everybody's lives, we were really far down into these hierarchy of needs. We were down in these bottom three tiers, and when we're down in these bottom three tiers, these are just survival, security, where am I in the social integration, and the point of this is that we have much less access, if any at all, than those top two tiers where we're talking about being able to be productive at work, creativity, development, expansion, growth, all of those things, we're stepped down here into that stress activation of those bottom three tiers. That's another way that maybe you're not actively feeling it in the moment, " Oh, I'm super stressed out," although I argue that a lot of people were the last year, when your brain is picking up all of the information in the background, wondering about these bottom three tiers, then it starts to shut off access to the more creative parts of the self. Here's how that works, the executive functioning of the brain is responsible for all of these actions, considering the future and making predictions, focusing your attention, forming strategies and planning, inhibiting inappropriate behavior and initiating appropriate behavior, shifting and adjusting behavior in situations change. When we are in sympathetic nervous system activation, which we'll go all the way back to the beginning of this, which most of us have been in, sympathetic nervous system activate... The executive functioning part of the brain we have less access to, again, we're diverting the resources to different areas of the body that the brain thinks it needs to go to so that we can deal with the stressor, and we have less access to the executive functioning part of the brain. This is the part of the brain that's responsible for all of these things, making good decisions, thinking through decisions, understanding consequences of our behavior, creativity, foresight, planning, execution of those plans. I can't tell you how many people are coming to me, " I can't think, I can't plan, I don't know how to get my life together, I can't focus, everything's fine, I have a paycheck, why can't I think about all these things?" Well, you've got sympathetic nervous system activation going on in the background that's making it harder to have access to these parts of your brain. The threat response system is activated and when the threat response system gets activated, guess what we want? Comfort food, comfort food is cliche, but it's also a thing, salt, sugar, fat, turns down the threat response system temporarily in that moment until your brain is seeking out that type of food to make you feel better. Again, in my work this happens all the time, people are, " I'm stressed, why can't I stop eating?" Well, this is one of the major reasons why, if you struggle with stress eating, which is, you have less access to the executive functioning part of your brain that says, " Don't do things that are bad for you," your brain is seeking out food that's going to make it feel better, it's sending you all triggers, sending you all signals saying, " Eat this, it makes you feel better momentarily," so it makes it harder for you to say no to those types of foods. After the binge into the donuts, well, what do you feel? Your serotonin has crashed and not only does stress in general disrupt your endocrine system, where in 90% of your serotonin is produced in the gut, serotonin is your feel good hormone, not like dopamine feel good, that's pleasure feel good, but the serotonin is, let's call it your happiness hormone. The serotonin that allows you to just be happy and at peace, 90% of that is produced in your gut. Well, now you're feeding it with all of the salt, sugar, fat, disrupts the gut, add that to the stress because your endocrine system has been disrupted, and you got a mess here. Now, your guilt, shame, frustration, and the lower serotonin level is contributing to the sympathetic nervous system activation. I'm just painting the picture for you here before I can give you all the beautiful tools to be able to manage it. Serotonin helps you regulate your mood, social behavior, appetite and digestion, sleep, memory, sexual desire and function, if your serotonin levels are off, you've got a lot of disruption in your life in other areas. Then finally, what happens when we're stressed, you can think of waking up every morning, let's think of your ability to make decisions like gas in a fuel tank, and if you're lucky, which people are not, if you're lucky you start with a full gas tank, let's say that you're stressed so you start with three quarters of a gas tank. Every decision you make throughout the day takes a little bit of gas out of that gas tank. You wake up in the morning, what do your kids want for lunch, what am I going to wear, what meetings do I have, am I going to take a shower, am I going to work out, you're making decisions all day long, by the time you get to the end of the day you're wiped, the gas is out of your gas tank, and when someone says to you, " Hey, what's for dinner?" Our mind goes, " I'll have a hard boiled egg," inaudible. You are using the gas and the gas tank all day long. Does this sound familiar to anybody but me, because we all have felt this overwhelmed...... the mental load women carry not just of the jobs that we're doing, but all of the other pieces that go into it, all go into every one of these decisions, our executive functioning, and it takes a little piece of it here and there. It is the combination of the way stress disrupts our nervous system and then the trickle down effect of all of the pieces of our, it's not just my job is really stressful or I'm fighting with my husband or my kids in the hospital, all of the different systems in the body that are impacted, the digestive system, the nervous system, the musculoskeletal system, your hormone system, your endocrine system, all of that are impacted. Then they all interact with each other, that emotional symptoms of stress, we've got the physical symptoms of stress, cognitive symptoms of stress, behavioral symptoms of stress, and all of that leads to this, yes, and we end up feeling like that and we don't totally understand why. What happens is we go, " Well, I can't quit my job, I don't want to leave my husband, I don't want to get rid of my children and I can't do anything, what do I do? Right?" This is where I want people to start thinking about stress differently. Now that we know that stress is a culmination of the activation of the sympathetic nervous system, we can ask a better question which is, " Okay, well, how do we activate the parasympathetic nervous system then? Will that help?" That's the question we should be asking. What we need to do about this is we need to become intentional about activating that parasympathetic nervous system on purpose, on a regular basis, like daily basis. You don't have to quit your job, leave your marriage, move away, or operate your life, we can manage stress without having to deal with the situation. Moreover, it's better to manage stress rather than feeling like, " Well, I have to change my circumstances," because if you're always having to change your circumstances, then you're always relying on the circumstances having to be perfect in order to manage your stress.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: All of our circumstances are so interwoven that if you change one, you leave the husband, now you got to co- parent, that's a whole different stress. You leave your job, find another job, that's a whole... It's all interdependent.

Eliza Kingsford: inaudible. Yeah. That's exactly right. I believe that the conversation about stress has been changing, which is good, more towards... People also used to think about stress, it was like, " Go get a massage and have a date night," and all these things and do, yay, those things are amazing, but people need ways to manage their day- to- day lives in this sympathetic nervous system activation that are accessible, that are repeatable, that can be consistent and that we can feel a significant benefit from on a regular basis.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: One other thing that Eliza talk about for those that are in the Rise and Thrive Group, we talk about what are those things that feed your soul? I call it soul food. What are those practices? How is stillness in reflection a part of the strategy? It shouldn't be seen as something like you said, it's date night or special, it should be a part, just like you strategize for your business, the stillness practices how you strategize for yourself.

Eliza Kingsford: Yes. So much yes to that, hopefully these things will not be new, is just a reiteration of all the things that you've been talking about because that's what it is, it's one of the things that feed your soul. Tell me if you see this as well, Rebecca, people see that as, " Oh, wouldn't it be nice if I had time to do that," and it becomes, " If I have time, I'll fit that in." I like to talk about stress in this way to iterate, if you don't make time to fit that in, what you're going to be making time for is some disease, some health issues, some something else, because the acute activation of stress will not go away with a massage or a job change or whatever, it's a part of the way that culturally we have now filled every moment of our lives, that's the culture, that has created this acute activation, it's not going anywhere. I sound dramatic here and I think I'm okay with sounding dramatic on this because I think it's that important, the only way we're going to combat that is to inject a routine, inject time, inject on purpose the ways to activate the other system because otherwise we know we'll just keep filling and the stress will just keep spreading in whatever areas of your body. There are people who say, " Who knows this is obesity, all cancer, is derived from an energetic imbalance in the body, which can be addressed with stress management tools." Take that for what you will, I don't know, but it's a big statement, what do we do? The good news is that a lot of what we can do to manage this, if not all of it is free and it's accessible to everybody, it's just that we view it as a luxury rather than an a...... breathwork is free and really powerful, really good research on diaphragmatic breathing, super easy to teach yourself how to do, and that comes from stress. We breathe really shallow, we have really shallow breaths and we don't expand our diaphragm and our lung capacity, and even just teaching yourself to breathe differently for one minute a day, three times a day, just doing a diaphragmatic breathing will activate your parasympathetic nervous system. Most people are breathing wrong, believe it or not...... and take you out of the stress response, super easy to do. If you can ask yourself, " Can you fit in one minute of breathing, three times a day," probably can. For those of you who have the ability and access to get out into nature, a lot of really good study on how nature impacts our parasympathetic nervous system, so just getting out of the house, can you make 10 minutes every day, Rebecca, you're always posting your walks and stuff like that, this is all part of that reset of the nervous system. Here's what I want to say about exercise, exercise for the sake of relaxation, you've all done the exercise where it just feels so good, whether it's, " Okay, I got a great Peloton release," or whatever, but when I was in my twenties it was like, " How many calories am I burning? I'm not burning enough calories."... which contributes to this best. Exercise with the intention of, get your sweat on, we all know what a good sweat feels like, that's great. But with the intention of letting go of whatever we're holding on to, or that work email or whatever, there's a difference.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I've had a few clients who were so like, 5: 00 AM orange theory or I'm a loser, that I've had to say, " Look, I think you should sleep in, that's contributing to your stress, not helping," totally.

Eliza Kingsford: inaudible be mindful about our intention and purpose behind doing those things.... the first to raise my hand and say that I had a pretty unhealthy relationship with exercise when I was younger and even just shifting in the mindset, it's the same workout but shifting in the mindset helps cue the body into rest and digest mode of, we're doing this to take care of ourselves and it feels differently and so much power in shifting our mindset and your inaudible.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: That mindset piece, the thing I'm always trying to instill is that, this stillness work I call reflection is again part of the strategy. If your mindset is, this is just as important as my weekly sales meeting, or this is just as important as my... I even encourage, depending on the preferences of clients, I have a station for reflection, there's a stool, it's got my journal, it's got my pen, there's a place to put my coffee, when I get up in the morning, it's a visual cue that that strategy or building breathwork into, I love my morning coffee routine, I blend this, then wrote saying that I do every morning that I try to build in this as a stillness practice is making my coffee, but nothing else gets in, I'm not multitasking on my phone, I'm just being present in it, and it gives me calm. To build in whatever you've got going, let's build this in so it doesn't feel like it's some separate thing that can be left behind.

Eliza Kingsford: You don't want to make this something that stresses you out because you have to do it, that's why I like to go through a little bit of the science because it takes it from a nice to have, to a need to have, ideally, because we're understanding when you do that, when you build in that time for reflection, or just even if it's five minutes and you have a coffee routine and you're not checking your phone and you're looking out the window, whatever it is, you move your brain into what I call active intention and if you don't move your brain into active intention, it is automatically in passive reactivity throughout the day. You probably have all felt it, you wake up in the morning and your brain is searching, searching, searching, searching, oh, yeah, my to- do list, got it, and then bam, your brain is off for the day., what do I have to do? What are my plans? Are the kids lunch made? Is the laundry and inaudible, and bam, you are in passive reactivity all day long. What I mean by passive reactivity is that your brain is just a collection of what you did every day before and all of the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors and processes and that's what it knows how to do, rogue memorization, and that's what it's going to do unless you intentionally bump it off course, that's its job. We are in passive reactivity all day long until you train your brain to do it differently. If all you do is give yourself that time in the morning, maybe it's 10 minutes, it doesn't matter how long you give it, now you can recalibrate to active intention and when you recalibrate it to active intention, you have more access. This is the paradox of it, you have more access to the thoughts you need to get that to do list done better, faster and more efficiently. When you go into active intention, you're going to do better on that sales call because your brain is now kicked into a different mode. The paradox is, we slow down to get more effective, we slow down to be more efficient because we're a culture of feeling every moment and filling all of our time, we don't have as much access to executive functioning, we don't have as much access to clarity and good decision- making and now we're doing a hundred things 70% rather than 40 things at a hundred percent. This is the beauty of some of these meditation shifting, quite literally shifting brain matter, quite literally changes brain matter if you don't have meditation practice, gratitude practice, and then reducing process inaudible. Of course that's a lot of the work that I do with people, but not for the sake of weight loss and body composition, but because those foods are designed the way that they are designed scientifically and chemically, messes with your serotonin level, messes with your response system, throws off the system in your body and you're less able to manage stress, deal with stress, deal with the emotions of stress and make good decisions for yourself. It seems like a low hanging fruit to be able to say, " It's not about the calories, it's not about the weight in this thing, but it's about the way that it impacts my ability to be effective in my life." It was certainly a relevant topic for me as I started to learn about stress differently and how to manage it and think about it different-

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I can't think of a topic that's more relevant for high achieving women and the way you've broken it down to relate to fatigue, overwhelm of all... The kids still come to mom for everything, we get bombarded with all the things. One of the pieces of this that's integral and you touched on it is flipping the script on, when I slow down I actually get more done, that is just such a juxtaposition from our habit and what we've been told and taught, and I think it sits really closely to our high achiever mindset of always feeling like we're in the mode of proving ourselves. Women have this deep seated, Well, I'll bring myself and then I'll either get this opportunity or earn the right to this," we have to just own it. That puts us into this activity- based mode that's really counter productive from what we really want. You can validate that then with neuroscience, you can validate it spiritually in the Bible, those are principles. You can read about Einstein's time where it's just a totally different way of thinking about time and tasks, if we don't get that piece it's really hard to put it into practice because we got to believe it at some point, you either practice it until it works or just decide to believe it and then go for it. How do you work with your clients to flip that script?

Eliza Kingsford: We get addicted to our dominant emotions, especially in high achievers, the addiction is productivity, the addiction is tasks, checking off tasks or to do lists. The addiction is, I have so much to do, the addiction is, I'm so busy and it's not intentional but what it is, is a repetition of a dominant emotion or a dominant feeling that we've memorized so acutely in the body that the body is in the driver's seat. Anytime that you have something dominant like that, where we do it without even knowing, that's a habit. Really a lot of our emotions and even the things that drive our productivity are just ingrained, learned, dominant feelings and dominant emotion. We have this need in order to recognize who we are, we have this need belt over time of, " Oh, I'm busy, I've got so much to do, I've got this big to- do list. I have so many tasks I need to cross off." In reality, it's important to tease apart, what is the most important thing I can get done today that if by doing it I can cross off all these other little things that make me so much more productive. Am I addicted to busy- ness? If I were to either let that go or start to shift the way I described that or shift my intentions, who do I want to be in my job? Not so much my promotion, but who do I want to be? Do I want to be somebody that gets through tasks easily? Who do I want to be? Then we start to ask ourselves, " Well, what would I have to do to be that person?" Because right now I'm hustle, hustle, hustle, productivity, productivity, productivity, no time, no space, I'm stressed at that, but if I'm saying I want to be this person, what would I have to do to be that person? Where's the gap? We start focusing on how to close that gap based on the blueprint of where we've said we want to go. We're so willing to break contracts with ourselves for the sake of taking care of others and it's such a paradox right of, we know better and we have to do better.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: So relevant, oh my gosh. I literally was going to say to you if we had time before we started, " Hey, I had this weird thing happen that triggered me, why is my first response that I either need a shot of something or a cheeseburger?" Just earlier today I had a conversation with somebody that really upset me. I'm clean either, I've been doing, especially these last few weeks, really working on those last few inaudible, and immediately my emotions, I wanted to cry straight and have a cheeseburger and probably a side of fries in the midst of it. You've just explained it to me without me even have to ask some questions. Now, I'll go take my walk, I'll probably go for a run later and just let my body do what my body does best.(singing)(silence)

Eliza Kingsford: ...the reptilian part of the brain that sits on your brain stems, a little almond shaped...... eye and condense it, I won't go over every one of the details like I did for some of these other companies, I don't think you all...


Today's episode is a replay of a session from the Badass MasterClass with Eliza Kingsford. Eliza is a licensed psychotherapist with training in clinical psychology, neuro-emotional technique, and emotional freedom technique. She takes us through what happens to all of the systems in our bodies when stressed and then shares how we can manage that stress.

Today's Host

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Rebecca Fleetwood Hession


Today's Guests

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Eliza Kingsford

|Author, Licensed Therapist