Business is Human with Lindsay Tjepkema

Episode Thumbnail
This is a podcast episode titled, Business is Human with Lindsay Tjepkema. The summary for this episode is: <p>This week on The Badass Women's Council, we put Rebecca in the hot seat as Lindsay Tjepkema takes the reigns as the interviewer. Lindsay is the CEO and Co-Founder of Casted, the Amplified Marketing Platform, and was part of the Stand Tall in Your Story event. </p><p>Today's episode focuses on the business is human framework and how the human element makes everything thrive. Please tune in for an insightful discussion on how we can do better as humans, emotionally, personally, and socially, for ourselves and others. </p>
The business is human framework
02:11 MIN
The consequences of being obsessed with productivity
02:43 MIN
The obsession with time
03:05 MIN
What can we as humans do differently?
02:25 MIN
Listening to yourself takes practice
01:56 MIN
This week's reflection question
00:24 MIN

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: This is Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, host of the Badass Womens Council Podcast. I'm super glad that you're here. We provide reflection and connection for the high achieving woman. Obviously, the podcast episode you're listening to by yourself, so the connection you can find at badasswomenscouncil. community. Come on in and join us. All right, here we go.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Well, hello. I am not Rebecca Fleetwood Hession. I am Lindsay Tjepkema and I have the distinct privilege and honor of actually interviewing Rebecca on her show today. Hi, Rebecca.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It's a podcast takeover! Yay!

Lindsay Tjepkema: It is! Watch out.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: crosstalk.

Lindsay Tjepkema: I'm going to say, I'm not going to let you hit the stop button on the record, we're going to be here all day.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I'm down with it.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Your listeners don't know what they signed up for. Well, what's really fun is that we didn't know, the first thing this morning, that we were going to do this. I put on, for the first time, a new shirt that is a play on the words human kind and it says" human and kind." And, little did I know that you were going to send me a little Voxer a couple hours after I put this on and say, " Hey, I have an idea. Let's talk about business is human on my podcast, but I want you to interview me." I was like, " Of course. Of course, we can do that," so here we are.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: That is a great lead in to the things we're going to talk about today, about instinct and just having a little bit of that inner knowing, that emotional response, just an idea. I had that idea in the shower and I was like, "Well, that could be fun," and I just acted on it. It wasn't some strategic plan that I had been executing for the last 90 days.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Candid conversations.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Here we go.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Just got to run with it. Well, great. Well, we talk all the time about business is human, business being human. Business is human, it is nothing else but human. It is a whole bunch of humans working together to do a thing. But, we talk a lot about it, pretty naturally, you and me, and separately and together. But, let's level set with everyone and get everyone on the same page about business is human. Tell me about the framework.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: You know, I built this simple little framework because of this conversation. In my history as a consultant, doing lots of work with the execution of goals and scoreboards, it was always the human element that made a strategy work or not work. We spent so much time building the frameworks of strategy, and execution of strategy, and scoreboards, and how were we going to know if we were getting it right. I looked at the teams that were doing well and said, " You know what, the ones that are really making a difference are the ones that have paid attention to the human element." And, we talked about this so much that I thought, " I need a simple way to discuss this." I spent months trying to distill this thing down into the lowest common denominator because I believe that the most powerful messages are simple messages. And I know you do, too, we spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to take our complex thoughts and make them simpler, because humans like things that are simple. And, so it goes like this. It's this simple. It's two columns. On one column is the business side, on the other column is the human side. On the business side, the needs are to control, measure and optimize. Good businesses do this really, really well. They know the goals, the strategies, the systems, the processes, they have a scoreboard to know if they're winning. It's how you should run a business and it's where the majority of leaders spend the majority of their time, thinking about this. But, on the other side is the column that says the humans. And, what humans need is to be personal, emotional and social. So we have these two very important needs that are very, very different. I'm helping people, companies, teams understand how to satisfy them both and bring them together in a really meaningful way.

Lindsay Tjepkema: That is so needed. Especially right now, we're hearing all... People have forever looked for new opportunities that lets them bring their whole selves to work and be more human, but especially now. The great resignation and people are, honestly, starting to see that they have other opportunities, and that life's too short to be in a situation where they are a cog in a machine of control, measure, optimize and that's it. And, that the human side of the business and of their role within the business really does matter and it gets to matter. Employers are starting to see that, too.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Absolutely. It's why books like Brene Brown's books and others who are talking about you're enough, and to be vulnerable and to be more human are resonating so deeply and have been for several years. But, people didn't know how to do it. Were they going to be allowed to do it? And now, we've got this just global look at it, where now, if you're a leader that's not paying attention to it, I believe you're going to get left behind. I have a book that's coming out in February called Write Your Own Story, and I talk about the various ages that we've been through. The Agricultural Age, the Industrial Age and I believe we've already been in the Age of Humanity. I just want to just call it what it is, because if you're not paying attention to the humans and the human side of business, you're going to lose.

Lindsay Tjepkema: You've already lost.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: You've already lost.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about some of the consequences, on the humans and on the businesses, of this obsession that we have with productivity. You have such a depth of understanding with what's happening there. Let's get into that.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: My favorite way to describe it is a silly example but it really hits home with most people I'm talking to. So, I'm a runner and often times, I'll go run with friends or a group of people. And inevitably, they'll be a situation where somebody that I'm running with will get a half mile or a mile down the road and they'll realize that they haven't turned on their device that's supposed to be tracking their miles. Their Apple Watch, Fitbit, whatever it is. Sometimes, they will stop in the street and just lose their minds. I'm like, " What's the matter?" " Well, that doesn't count!"

Lindsay Tjepkema: It doesn't count now!

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: "That doesn't count now!" I'm like, " hold on."

Lindsay Tjepkema: Apple doesn't know that I ran today.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right. Because one, didn't we do the miles? Didn't your body derive benefit from that last half mile or mile? And, didn't you and I connect and start to have some endorphins running, that are bringing us joy? The human side of it was being realized, but if it wasn't being tracked somewhere on a graph that they could look back on, it literally didn't count. It sounds silly, but you take that principle and you apply it to so many other things in our lives. We've lost the ability to... The desire, let me say that. We've lost the desire to rest. Because if you're a high achiever, when you're resting, you're not getting stuff done.

Lindsay Tjepkema: You're not achieving.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: You're not achieving.

Lindsay Tjepkema: By definition, it is not being an achiever. Yes.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: The examples go on, and on and on. We've lost our ability to feel in ways that we use our intuition, our gut instincts, that Spidey sense as a part of our lives, a part of our business, a part of the strategy. Because we feel like everything has to be validated, from somewhere outside of ourselves, to be worthy and to be right. We're obsessed with being productive and being right, getting it right.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah. That's something that just candidly, you've been working on with me. I think a lot of people can relate to this. When you are an achiever and when you are somebody who has built a life around getting things done, and checking things off the list, and winning or competing in any way, shape or form, that's what good looks like. That's what feel good looks like, that's what happy looks like, but that's not where joy comes from. Rest, rest in and of itself is an achievement. It is. And, we're gamifying that, too. It's, " How much did I rest? Did you rest enough? Are you achieving your maximum potential from the amount of rest that you're getting?"

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah. There's got to be an app for that or it doesn't count.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Oh my gosh, I napped for 20 minutes. Where do I log that in my wellness app?

Lindsay Tjepkema: Otherwise, it doesn't count and it just looks like I was unproductive.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: You and I have talked incessantly about this. I know where it comes from. When we moved from the agricultural society of work to the Industrial Age society of work, we lost a lot of our human connection. We lost a lot of why our work matters. Because in the agricultural society, if you didn't keep up your part of the deal, people died. The consequences were pretty in your face. People suffered or died, there was human consequence. Well, in the Industrial Age, if you don't show up for work, you don't get paid. It's inconvenient, and somebody might have to take over for part of your work for a day, or whatever, but there's no grand feeling of loss when you don't show up. That's disconnected us from knowing how our work matters to other humans. When the Industrial Age worked so well for our economy, and it did, it has, we turned our education system into an industrial model. So now, that's where we get our obsession with being right. You come into school, at what, five years old and you've spent much of your first four or five years being the snizzle in your family, probably. People clapped when you did things, people told you you were great. And then, all of a sudden, you get to school and they're like, " Sit at your desk for long periods of time, get in a straight line to go to lunch." And if you're one of the courageous ones, you might raise your hand to have an opinion. Every year, we just stripped more and more of us out of us, to the point we started to say, " Well, I have to get it right. I can't have red marks on my paper, I have to get good grades, I have to comply." There are right and wrong answers to everything, we started to believe that.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah. Well, we're dealing with this right now with my kiddos. My oldest just moved into intermediate middle school and it's been this big jump. As a family, not just him as a student, but as a family were told to sink or swim, figure it out. Another thing we talk about a lot that you taught me and that you opened my eyes to is be versus do. We hang so much of our self on what we do, and it gets back to the achievement and productivity versus who we are and who we're bringing those up around us, whether it's our children, or our coworkers, or our employees or friends, to be. Who are we helping them be? It does, it all comes back to this obsession with being right, and getting it right, and being productive, and achieving and doing.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Those people, those students that are wired differently than the classroom brings out in them-

Lindsay Tjepkema: Which is probably much more than we would like to believe. It's not like it's one or two kids.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It's most of them.

Lindsay Tjepkema: At work, too.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And at work, too.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Same thing in business.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: If you think differently or if you don't have a good time construct, which is actually neuro, it's not character based. Because of school, now we've got this belief that if you aren't timely and you aren't neat, you don't care. Well, timeliness is not a character trait. It's neuroscience of the way you're wired, to understand time. We don't have time today, but I'll tell you, Google it, study it. It's fascinating. But, we now believe that that person that's late for something is just a jerk and just doesn't care. That's not true! I mean, there are probably some jerks that don't care and that's why they're late. But more often, it's a neuro deal, it's not character based. But, that whole school, the way that we were raised taught us that one time is the only way to be.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah. And, there's wrong and there's right. Yeah, conform.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: What do you think about the obsession with time? You're the CEO. You can not go into work and nobody fires you. But, how many times do you get at the end of the week and you just mentally calculate the number of hours you've worked?

Lindsay Tjepkema: Oh, yeah. All the time.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: All the time.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Well, especially because we all have life. I have three kiddos, like we just mentioned, and life and I'm a human. It all blends together. You talk about that, too. It's not work life balance, it all comes together. Sometimes, it's a lot and sometimes it's a little. It's all got to fit somewhere.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I'd much rather have people working in a way that is personal, emotional, social, you're taking care of your personal needs. You're allowing your emotions and your intuition to come together, and you're understanding how the business works. You know what your goals are, you know what you're supposed to achieve, you know how to achieve it. Well, if you can get that done in 30 hours instead of 50 hours, we should celebrate that.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Right.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Instead of us thinking, " I didn't work my 40 hours this week so I must be bad."

Lindsay Tjepkema: I must be bad, I was wrong.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah, I'm an underachiever.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Let's talk about that. We've identified there's a problem. I hope that this is hitting home to everyone, this whole, " I feel that way, I get it." So what do we do differently? What can we as employees, what can we as leaders, what can we as humans do differently?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Well, the idea of paying attention to your personal needs means that you have instincts of what you need to be doing. The obsession is you want me to tell you right now, what are the three things, Rebecca, that I can do to get it right. You're a marketing genius, you know that the best content marketing pieces that get shared the most are the" Four Ways to Do This," and, " The 10 Hacks to Do That," because we want it validated, we want it in quick little bits and pieces and we want it to be right.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: What I'm saying is you know what you need, if you give yourself the space to listen to yourself as much as you listen to everyone else. Listen to yourself more. Get still, every morning, and ask yourself, " What do I need?" Some days, it may be that you need to go get more information, but most of the time what you need, you already know. You're just looking everywhere else to get it validated. We make decisions on emotions, we validate it on facts. Which is fine, to validate it on facts, if you're doing something that's already been done. But if you're trying to innovate, if you're trying to come from creating work from your heart and your soul, there's no way. I can't Google, " What is Rebecca's purpose in life," and get it back. Amazon Prime does not deliver my meaning and purpose. So the first thing that we all need is some stillness each day, to let us speak to us.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Something that you and I talk about a lot, too, and that you remind of all the time, is that your gut is data, your intuition is data. You're not born with a magical file folder of, " Here is Rebecca's intuition, and she was born with it and this is all it will ever be." It's your lived experiences over however many years you've been alive. It's all the colors you've seen, and all of the days you lived, and all of the meals you've eaten and all of the people you've talked to. Your brain is a pretty beautiful computer and that's data, that's real. You coach me all the time to trust that. It is real and it is right, most of the time. The tricky part is trusting it and tuning into it.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: The tricky part is trust it because we're so programmed to validate it from somewhere else.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Someone else must know. Someone else must know better than me.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Absolutely. Or, " Please just tell me I'm right." The uncertainty of is it or isn't it. A lot of times, what coaching is, is I'm just holding up the mirror and helping you see you. I very rarely say, " Lindsay, here are the five things you should do this week."

Lindsay Tjepkema: Even though I wish you would. She doesn't do that, you guys.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: But, you think about how this impacts teams and leaders. Everybody has what they need and they're afraid to listen to it and respond to it. Instead, everybody's looking around like, " Okay, what should I do next?" When I work with my clients, I want them to discover their unique, personal story so they can then stand tall in that story and live a life full of soul, and emotions and their natural curiosity about their unique gifts, talents and abilities so they can live a thriving life. Because our brains are hard wired for stories, and our brain wants us to thrive so I help my clients tap into that. I also have a sponsor for this podcast called Storybook, which is a unique and innovative platform that helps you bring your company's stories to life by tapping into the emotional flow and the natural curiosity that we have about your products and services. So check them out, you can go to my website, wethrive. live, click on the Stand Tall in Your Story link and see the kind of work they're doing for us. Or, go to their site, cantaloupe. tv and there's hundreds of stories there that they've created, that you can experience. Check them out. We're so grateful to work with them and for them to sponsor the podcast.

Lindsay Tjepkema: What's the one take away? We'll get to where people can go because you've got all kinds of fun stuff planned that people can dig into. But, summing up our conversation, if somebody walks away from this and is like, " Oh my gosh, I've been trying to achieve my way to feeling better," what do you want them to take away from this?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Well, getting comfortable listening to yourself takes practice. It's like a muscle, you've got to use it and it's going to be a little bit sore, and then it's going to get stronger. So one of the things I do that's just a one time sign up, pay for it and we'll do the dang thing is I have a unique gifts, talents and abilities inventory interview session, it takes about 90 minutes, where I literally hold up the mirror and help you see you. That can be a great way, especially if you are part of this great resignation thoughts where you're like, " I think there's something else for me," let's talk about that.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Do it.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Let's see, are you working in a role that you're using your unique gifts and talents because that's really what our brain's looking for, is to have a sense of thriving and wellbeing. You may be, there may just need to be some tweaks and adjustments. You may not need to leave the career that you're in. Because one of the things I love to say, and I think therapists say this all the time, is no matter where you go, there you are. Leaving the job you're in to go to a different job may not be the right answer. But, a 90 minute session could help you identify that.

Lindsay Tjepkema: This is where I get to take advantage of being the host, interviewing you. Speaking from experience, it's a game changer. It's amazing, what you're able to do. Because so often, and I really think this is going to hit home for a lot of your listeners, is a lot of people right now are thinking, " What am I going to go do next? What do I want to do? What's wrong with where I'm at now and what could I do that would make me happier?" And there, you're right back at it, to what's going to be right for me. How can I produce my way, what do I need to do to get to where I want to go? You help people see, you helped me see, who am I now and who do I want to be that will get me to where I want to go. And then, therefore what can I do with it.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Right.

Lindsay Tjepkema: That's amazing.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Who do you want to be, not just what do you want to do. Yeah.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. And then, what else? What else have you got cooking up so people, if they want more of this goodness?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: This was a tweet. I saw it on Twitter. The day I saw it, it really resonated with me. And since then, I bet I've seen it shared 100 times. Biggs Burke, he's some entertainment guy. I'm sorry, Biggs, I don't remember your background, I didn't Wiki you. But, the tweet was, " Don't be afraid to start over. This time, you're not starting from scratch, you're starting from experience." I think high achievers like us have this, " Well, I'll just keep trudging through because I don't want to waste all the experience. I don't want to start over. I have these ideas, or I have this thing I might want to try, but I don't want to waste the education or waste the experience I've had." As you've alluded to, that's not the way it works. All that experience is helping you be whoever you want to be next, or just to be more of whatever role you're in now. Maybe just to be more grounded in who you are so that you can do it more confidently and more boldly, I think is the deal. We don't always have to leave. The other thing that happens a lot with individuals, and you and I have talked about this a lot in the group that you're in with the Rise and Thrive Experience that you've done with me...

Lindsay Tjepkema: Love it.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It's impossible to do these things in isolation. The phrase I use is nobody thrives alone.

Lindsay Tjepkema: It's true.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: So another thing that I'm kicking off is it's a group experience, but it's virtual so people can be from anywhere in the country, which I love bringing people from different parts of the country together and learning from each other. And, we're going to do Badass Breakthroughs: Be More You in 2022.

Lindsay Tjepkema: I love that.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It's a monthly one- on- one session with me and a monthly group session with no more than 10. I'm going to take up to 10, and then I'm going to cut it off. I'm going to start marketing that next week. I'm excited about it.

Lindsay Tjepkema: That's going to be so good.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah.

Lindsay Tjepkema: So good because one- on- ones with you are gold.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Aw.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Love it.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Thanks, babe.

Lindsay Tjepkema: That's incredible. That's really incredible. Again, I can't advocate enough for that, which you did not ask me to do but I'm going to do it anyway. Because it's huge, and it's meaningful, and I'm going to put it out there, it's life changing and the people that you connect with, it's pretty incredible. So there you go, that's crosstalk.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Thanks for the podcast takeover.

Lindsay Tjepkema: I kind of forced my way in here, but I'm sure glad you let me stay. This was pretty fun.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Come back any time. I'd love to have you. If you wake up one morning and you're like, "You know what I want to do today, I want to interview Rebecca on her podcast."

Lindsay Tjepkema: Don't tempt me.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Call me.

Lindsay Tjepkema: I might, I might. All right, well there you have it. You can't do your way to happiness, you've got to be it.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I like it. Thanks, love.

Lindsay Tjepkema: Thank you.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Thank you, Lindsay Tjepkema, the CEO and founder of Casted, the first and only amplified marketing platform. You can watch Lindsay's video from her Stand Tall in Your Story event at the link in the show notes. Today's reflection question is what's that thing in your heart, your gut, that you have been pushing away and pushing away, that you might need to pay a little bit of attention to? The second reflection question is when you think about your needs being personal, emotional and social, what do you need right now? You know what it is, listen to yourself. And, please join the online community at badasswomenscouncil. community, where we can continue the conversation and you can meet other badass high achievers like you. Thanks so much, make it a great day. If you like the music for the podcast, go to iTunes, Spotify, wherever you listen to your music and look up Cameron Hession Clouds. You can download the full song there. He's got some other stuff out there as well. And y'all, he's my son. It'd be great if you'd go and download some of his stuff.


This week on The Badass Women's Council, we put Rebecca in the hot seat as Lindsay Tjepkema takes the reigns as the interviewer. Lindsay is the CEO and Co-Founder of Casted, the Amplified Marketing Platform, and was part of the Stand Tall in Your Story event.

Today's episode focuses on the business is human framework and how the human element makes everything thrive. Please tune in for an insightful discussion on how we can do better as humans, emotionally, personally, and socially, for ourselves and others.

Today's Host

Guest Thumbnail

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession


Today's Guests

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Lindsay Tjepkema

|Co-Founder & CEO, Casted