Jen Edds my FairyPodmother turns the mic on ME to talk Creativity & Uniqueness

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Hey. This is Rebecca Fleetwood Hession host of the Badass Women's Council Podcast. And I am so glad that you're here. Hey. You know what else you need to know about badass masterclass that I just launched. Check the link. So in this episode, my fairy podmother, Jen Eads, who is a consultant that helps people launch their podcast and is literally my fairy podmother interviews me and we have a rich conversation about creativity, and vulnerability, and uncertainty, and it was super fun. And I can't wait for you to hear it. Many of the things we talk about are in the book that I am waiting on the editor to return back to me. So these are topics near and dear to my heart. Here we go.

Jen Edds: Rebecca, why are we so hell bent on keeping our creativity hidden in professional settings?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Oh, Jen, you know this question just lights me on fire.

Jen Edds: That's why we started that way.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: That's why we started with that. There's a couple of reasons, but if we want to go back to root cause, our education did very little to reward our creativity. Our education is based on the factory model of work. And that says, sit down, keep your eyes on your own paper, helping is cheating, individual achievement is king and creativity comes out of collaboration. It comes out of different spaces from our heart and our brain and our soul and school is more memorization. It's gaining knowledge with no real context of how to use it in the real world. It's more memorization, which isn't creative at all.

Jen Edds: No. Now that you say that and I look back and I think about any collaboration or anything I did in school, it was either playing sports or playing in bands. Like that was how I learned about collaboration. I don't think that was anything that was ever taught except for the occasional group project. And that was always a disaster because you know somebody ends up doing all the work. There's the one person. Is that you? Were you that person?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Sometimes and then sometimes I just said to hell with it. This is ridiculous. Right?

Jen Edds: Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And that's the thing is we got feedback that said, we need to do more group projects because work leaders said, we need people educated on how to work in groups because that's how work gets done in the workplace. So the education system just threw in group projects, but nobody told anybody how to work in a group. And so it reinforced why working in a group is bad and wrong because it was awful. And the reason we have school the way that we have school today is because back in the 1900s, when we went from being farm to factory, we had this huge productivity uptick, which was a boom for our economies. Right?

Jen Edds: Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: But what we lost was the human connection of our work. Because when we're in agricultural society, you had to work together or you died.

Jen Edds: Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: The consequences were pretty great. And then you move to the factory model and the consequences weren't even seen, felt, or known about the human connection. You went in, you did your piece of the work, you didn't even really know how it impacted the other pieces, and you really didn't know how it impacted other humans other than your own paycheck or what you saw the boss growing in their business. Right? It was all financial. There was very little part of what you and I call story. There was very little about our individual contribution. And so when the factory model worked really well from an economic standpoint, we said, we got to get kids through school faster because we need more factory workers. Like this is literally why our school is the way it is today. When you look it up and research, it you're like, this is asinine, but it's been that way for so long, nobody questions it anymore.

Jen Edds: So sure.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: So when the factory model worked, we switched school to the factory. Prior to that schools were the one room classroom where humans of various ages got together and had conversations to learn about things that matter to their village or where they lived. It was religion. It was what we would call today shop and home- ec classes. It was reading. It was writing. But it all had context to the human, to human connection. So when we moved school to the factory model of school, then it was individual pieces and parts, math, science, English in your individual world. And the reason that we did the individual world in the factory is it's easier to control, measure, and optimize when you have various jobs and departments. When you pull it all apart, you can control it better. With the idea being then you put it back together with greater degree of efficiency, which gave you higher profit. So we took the same model and put humans through it to get people through their education faster so they could get to work in the factory. And so you took away the human connection. You took away the creativity so you could control, measure, and optimize. And I'm a huge fan of business models, control, measure, and optimize. You need a good P& L, you need systems, and you need processes, but we have abandoned our human needs, which are personal, emotional, and social, and all of our creativity and all of our unique gifts and talents come from our human, personal, emotional, and social. But we now are trying to control, measure, and optimize our own human needs. And it's a debacle.

Jen Edds: How do we bring that creativity back into work? Because I've seen this in some of my clients, they get stuck when we're in kind of the early phases of the podcast. I'm like, you got to bring your experience and your point of view into this, or none of this matters. They can go out and they can listen to somebody else. And it is such a hard thing for people sometimes to really just expose that piece of themselves and share that. Share what really lights them up, as opposed to, if I can just get them to remove the stick from their butt, their podcast is going to be 500 times better.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Yeah. I experienced the same thing, but we have rarely been rewarded or invited to share our uniqueness. We've been invited to share our productivity. We've been invited to share our results. But very rarely, since we were five years old, has someone said to us, Hey, come over here. I want you to be you.

Jen Edds: How does that work? So, gosh, we could do a whole thing just on what you do with Rise and Thrive. But how do you invite that creative piece in to that program?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It's really interesting, same experience that you have with the podcast. When I first asked the questions, Hey, let's talk about your unique gifts, talents, and abilities, really smart people who have done amazing things look at me and give me the long pause, deep breath, and then they just slow blink for a while. What do you mean unique gifts, talents, and abilities. And many will say, I don't think I have any. Now these are vice presidents, and CEOs of companies, and entrepreneurs. And badasses, like people who have done amazing work. And it's always fascinating where you're just looking at them like the fact that you don't know them or believe in them is sad.

Jen Edds: It really is.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And then the next step is I say, okay. If you did know what they were, what would they be? Cause that just triggers this weird part of your brain that says she's wants an answer so I'm just going to go with it and they'll say, well, I'm a good mom. I'm like, well, role that you play. You should keep doing that. What else? And they'll say I'm a good, you know, marketer or accountant or whatever it is that they do for the job. I say, okay, yep. That's another role that you play. You keep doing that. What else? And you just, you kind of peel the layers of expectation that have been put on them for their whole lives. You just keep peeling that onion, you keep peeling it back, and then you start to get to things like I'm really good at keeping confidences or I'm really good at solving difficult problems that have a lot of intricacies, or I'm really good at building. You finally start to get to the heart of the matter. And then it's interesting to watch their faces because when they get reminded of who they really are, there's this new freedom that comes from that. So once I help them identify what their unique gifts, talents, and abilities are, and really hold them inspired and accountable to using them things start to shift and change. And then they start to recognize the way that they can take their role and make it far more enjoyable and far more inspiring and better by just being more intentional about aligning their work to who they are and kind of delegating out some of the other stuff or just reframing the way that they see their work. It's fascinating.

Jen Edds: Yeah, it is. No wonder you love your job.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I love my job. I do love my job. I got a text this morning from Wendy Noe, from Dove Recovery House for women, which I know you know, as well. She's a common friend of ours. And when we first started working together a year ago, she was going through a bit of that. She had been at Dove and was getting good results, but she was feeling the edges of burnout coming on. And when we peeled back what she's great at, she had responded to the needs of the business in a way that she was doing most of the work that she doesn't love because it needed to be done. And I said to her, there's other people that can do that work that they are better suited for to free you up to do the things that you are uniquely great at. And we just started the work in that way. And I get a text from her this morning, the success that she has gotten in the last even three months from really honing in on her gifts and talents is now opened up millions of dollars in fundraising for the organization, millions of dollars.

Jen Edds: That's incredible.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It has taken her to a place where she's going to get the opportunity to do national exposure for the model that they have at Dove House. She's going to be teaching and training on the model. I mean, I could go on and on and on just by making that shift into doing what she's uniquely great at.

Jen Edds: Have you always been able to do that in your own work?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I realized what happens when you don't. And it was through that discomfort and pain that the light bulb went off for me. And I said, if I'm feeling this shift, there's got to be thousands of other women that, or people, not just women, but people that are too. And I got really intentional about it, for me, because my unique gifts and talents, the three that I talk about mostly I'm sometimes annoyingly positive. So I can take any situation from my divorce to business challenges to traffic and just say to myself, okay, what's something good I can take out of this. I can just do that. It's just how I'm wired. The second thing I'm really good at is I'm a builder, so I can take pieces and parts and build business. And it helps me in coaching and consulting. There's several others, but let's just talk about those two.

Jen Edds: Hang on. I want to back up just a little bit, because when that light bulb, when that clicked for you, what did that look like? Because I don't think sometimes we even know when we're just in it and we're doing this stuff. What did that look like? When were you like, Oh, something's got to change here.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: When my work shifted, when I was with Franklin Covey, I'd been there for, at the time I'd been there 16 years and I was a top performer. I sold millions of dollars for them. My work is in bestselling business books from the client work that I did, had voice to the CEO, voice to the world's top thought leaders. Like I was kicking it badass and all of a sudden I started having this sense of discomfort about my work. Like it wasn't fun anymore, and it just didn't feel rewarding. And I thought, what is wrong? I've been good at this one.

Jen Edds: Even though you're making a boatload of money?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Boatloads of money, like pull up the truck, beep, beep. Yes. Boatloads of money. And then all of a sudden I was like, Oh, here we go. The company had made some shifts to where they needed to value center line approach more than innovative approach.

Jen Edds: What does that even mean?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: I'm an innovator. I'm a builder. So if I go into a client, I'm building a solution from there. It's like the difference between a custom builder of houses and somebody where you go in and you say here's your pick out your countertops, your cabinets, and your flooring. Like I'm a custom builder of solutions and the company needed to move to more of the pick out your countertops, cabinets, and flooring. That's not my gig. That's not my gig. And in order to be successful, I had to move to that because that's the way the company's systems and processes and rewards were moving. So to be a custom builder, when everybody else was needing to do it the other way, wasn't the right thing for me or the company. And so it wasn't that the company made a bad move. The company made the right move for them, but I just no longer had this sense of this job lights me up. And so I chose to leave and it was a really hard decision, but I knew if I stayed there, I would start to just burn out and shrivel and shrink and I wasn't willing to do that. And so I made the jump so I could continue to build and use my unique gifts and talents. And it was then that I realized, this is a thing. If I'm paying attention to who I am and create a career that plays off that, I will always have satisfaction. And if the company that I'm working for no longer needs my gifts and talents, it's not losing to quit and go find one that does, because I think we get into this trap of just staying because we value tenure, again which goes back to the education system, which is really broken, which, you know, you value somebody that sticks with it. Well, sometimes you should quit.

Jen Edds: Yes. Yes. Sometimes you should.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Or pivot at least.

Jen Edds: Let's go back to how you're using your unique gifts and talents.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And that was the story I wanted to share to illustrate how I realized what my unique gifts and talents were because I was feeling the discomfort of not using them. And I forced myself to sit down and say, what feels wrong and just kept peeling the layers back on myself in an optimistic way. Not saying, is there something wrong with you, Rebecca? But what's just doesn't feel right. Which is the other aspect of using our unique gifts and talents is it's an emotional endeavor. It's how we feel. We aren't rewarded in business or education for our feelings. In fact, people say things, really dumb things like don't take it personal. Y'all, that's not a thing. That is not a thing. Or I don't know why you're getting so emotional about it, but when you're talking about a work thing. It's like saying don't bring your arms to the meeting. They're inconvenient. Like we bring our emotions to everything, everything. I'm emotional about the bananas rotting on my counter right now. It feels bad that I spent $4 and they're not going to get eaten. Everything has emotion to it.

Jen Edds: But you can make banana bread before they go bad.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: How many times have we said that? I mean, really. My entire freezer is full of brown bananas that I froze because I didn't want to throw them away for smoothies. But that emotional connection it goes back to what I said about the human needs. Right? So our human needs are personal, emotional, and social. So personal means that they're unique. We're unique down to our fingerprints. If you look at your hands right now, it should be a symbol to you of how different you are from everybody else in the universe. And that's by design. That's not an accident. We're supposed to have unique, personal needs and talents and gifts. And we should feel something when we use them, when we help somebody by using them, when others serve us, like that's what it's supposed to be about is using our differences for connection to other humans. That's the social aspect of it. But when we come in like a drone on the assembly line of work, and just think that it's about what you can, only the things that you can measure, not what you can actually feel. We get things a little twisted. And again, I'm not against sound business practices. I'm a really good business consultant, but we cannot forget that these are humans that come into work everyday, not machines. We're not machines here to produce. You get me fired up on this topic. You know that, right?

Jen Edds: I can tell. I love it.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Crazy. Crazy. So back to your thoughts about the podcast, when you ask people to be themselves on a podcast, you're putting them into this situation where they're about to put their voice literally and figuratively into the universe for other humans to respond to. That's a huge vulnerability play.

Jen Edds: That's scary.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It's scary. And to say, I'm going to put my own voice out is even scarier. You kind of would rather, and this is what I kept doing, I kept Googling how to do a really good podcast or the right podcast. And you kept saying to me, you need to do your podcast. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, but I want to do it right. And I would ask you constantly like the right and wrong way to do things again from our education scripting that you always got the paper back and you look for the red marks. You didn't pay any attention to what you got right. You want to know what you got wrong.

Jen Edds: Oh, totally.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And so we do the same thing with this and the best thing that I did you gave me the advice. You said, Rebecca, you got to put out a(beep) first episode.

Jen Edds: Yes. And you did.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And I did. With no equipment other than my iPhone. I didn't have a microphone. I went and got my friend Christine after dinner one night at her house. And I said, come on, we're going to go to your closet and record a podcast. And she said, I don't know how to do that. And I said, I don't either, but we're going to figure it out. Pour a glass of wine. We each got a glass of wine. We went to her walk- in closet. We sat down in her closet with my iPhone between us, hit voice recording app. That's the extent of the equipment that I used on our first podcast. And it still gets downloads today.

Jen Edds: Isn't that amazing? Isn't it amazing how that works when you just put it out there? Because I think we are so quick. And I know with every song I even attempt to write, I'm judging it, I'm editing it before it even gets out, even while I'm using the voice recorder. Cause that's usually where I start to get my ideas and then Nope, delete, delete, delete. I can't even get through it because of all of the self editing.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: It's the most vulnerable thing to put what you've created out into the world for it to be judged. And here's the other thing we're not for everyone.

Jen Edds: No.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: We're not supposed to be, but it's so hard to think about somebody's not going to like it. I guarantee you there are people out there that have clicked through my podcasts like this(beep) is crazy. I'm not listening to this. They're just people that don't, that aren't going to like us. And that's a tough pill to swallow. And once you get okay with not being for everyone and wanting to really put your voice out because you know somebody needs it or it just feels good to be yourself, then you're part way there. But there's never a time that I don't release an episode and have that little twinge of okay. Here it goes. Yeah. I don't think you ever lose, I think if you lose that sense of, I hope it's okay. Or I hope people like it, then you're on your way to narcissism and we don't want to go there either. Right?

Jen Edds: Right.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And so I think it's okay to have a little bit of eeks, I hope this is okay.

Jen Edds: I'm all for that. It's so often I hear people say, well, I don't like my voice. And now my comeback for that is guests who lip synced through every semester of choir in college. I Milli Vanillied my way all through because the very first night you have to go and sing for the choir director so he knows what group to put you in and all of that. And I finished singing and he said, do you have a cold? Or is that how you really sing?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: No.

Jen Edds: So for years, because I never thought I could sing anyway, I mean, I was in choir to meet a requirement.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And now you go on stage and sing and play and entertain and do amazing things.

Jen Edds: Yes, but only because I had people around me saying you can do this, you will do this, and I'm going to help you. To this day, my friend, Rita, that I play with sometimes she will still sing my harmony part because I don't naturally instinctively hear it like she does so we pop out the phone recorder, she sings it. I go home and learn it. And boom. We're done.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Which is why we're human beings meant to live in community as the social part of our human needs. We're not meant to do this all alone. And when we do try to just go hunker down and figure stuff out, that's when we start to spiral down from putting our stuff out into the universe, because we, like you said, we edit before we even put it out there. And that's why your work was so integral to me to even get my podcast launched because had I been left to my own devices, I'd still be Googling how to do a good podcast two years later.

Jen Edds: You'd still have that box of gear just sitting in front of you. Can we talk about that?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: The box of gear. Yes. So I am a high achiever. Like I pride myself that I'm smart and I figure stuff out and I've been successful. I've probably got more confidence than I deserve. I do. I just do. And I ordered the equipment that you recommended. I was so excited. I had scheduled the whole weekend. I was going to get the equipment out, get my podcast set up. It was time. I had Googled enough. It was time to take action. So it was like the unboxing of the podcast equipment. Right? So I rip this box open. I've got all day, Saturday and Sunday to work on it. I remember it like it was yesterday. I'm on the floor of my office, all spread out there like it's Christmas morning with my stuff and I start taking it all out. And so I pull out the first set of instructions from my Zoom recorder. And I read the first page and it was written in music producer language, which to me, as a non- music producer, sounds like Greek or Russian or Chinese. And I read it and I thought, okay, you can do this, Rebecca, just read it slower. And I went back through word for word, and I was like, I don't understand. And it was not intuitive to me. And so I threw all that(beep) back in the box. Which you know what happens when you unbox something than try to put it back, nothing fit, and it was spilling out over the top of the box and I shoved it into the corner of my office and didn't make eye contact with it again for a month. Angry. Angry. And then finally, one day, I think you had touched base with me, like, where's that at? Where are you at? What are you doing? And I was like, I can't do it. Just come over and help me. I will write you a check. Just help me. But that's the way it's supposed to be. Right? When you get stuck and you can't figure it out and you are spiraling out of control because you feel so insecure, that's when you reach out to somebody that knows something you don't, because you speak the language of music production, and you very kindly sat with me and said, plug this into that hole, click. Push this button, click. And I wrote down those human instructions that you translated from that language into my language. And that's how I got started. And then every time I did it, it got a little easier. I'd still have to message you and be like, I forgot this one step. What does this mean? And you just kept walking me through it until I knew how to do it.

Jen Edds: And look at you now.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And look at me now. It is funny. When I start to do stuff and it like something doesn't go exactly right, I kind of even know how to problem solve a few things and I'm like, look at me go.

Jen Edds: What has happened as a result of you starting the podcast?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Oh my gosh. I want to talk about that in two ways.

Jen Edds: Okay.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Individually, what has happened is the recognition that starting the podcast was the first thing that I had learned from scratch in 20 years. Because everything else that I had done in my career was an iteration of something I already knew. So it was just like adding on this was the scary box of equipment that I couldn't even read the instructions. And it was a really important. You know, I'm 54 years old. I started this, I don't know, two years ago. Right? And so I think it was an important lesson for me, who had grown to be accustomed to things not being all that hard anymore, because they were just an iteration to say, you can do hard things, Rebecca. And it's so much more rewarding to learn something from scratch and then feel like I did it like it just lit me up. So that's one thing that happened is the renewed sense of confidence and courage that I got just from the skill building of it quite frankly. The second thing that's happened is people that have been a guest on my podcast are getting amazing opportunities because they courageously came on and shared their stories. Because a lot of my guests, some are authors, and a successful out in the world already. And some have been the everyday woman who courageously put her voice on the podcast, and with her voice shaking sometimes. And then for them to get feedback and opportunities and people saying to them, I really needed to hear that. I'm so glad you shared that story. And just to see what that looks like on their face to feel like they'd made a difference in somebody else's lives. That's what the human experience is supposed to be, that you get that sense of thriving, rewarding, I helped somebody that you don't always get from your day to day work. I mean, to the point where one Kelly Gordon, who is a yacht captain, she was on just about a month ago, and she had never done anything like this before. She's a yacht captain. Like that's a story for God's sakes.

Jen Edds: That is a story. That sounds awesome.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Her whole story is amazing. But after that, she was invited to be on three more podcasts immediately. She had somebody from Seattle reach out and want to talk to her that needed her support from a minority yacht captain perspective. Somebody from Italy asked her to help mentor on some things. Somebody from Chicago reached out and said I'm getting ready to start my own fleet business. Would you be willing to talk? I mean, that ripple effect of one 40 minute episode is just fascinating to me and the human experience.

Jen Edds: And that's what I love about podcasting is that to have that impact, you don't need to have a giant audience to have the ripple effect. And I love that you don't need some big name guest either. All you need is a good story that's going to connect with your listeners because you know your audience so well, you know exactly what they need to hear.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Absolutely. And the kinds of questions that will draw some of those things out from your guest and making them feel, I think the biggest thing is making your guests feel safe. Because the reason that a lot of people don't share their stories, going back to unique gifts and talents is in order to do that we need to get past this, what I call the sea of uncertainty. Right? So anytime we're doing something we've not done before, we've not done often, our brain sends that signal of red alert, red alert. This is different. This is new. This is scary. You might be afraid. What was happening. And it's not really fear because it's not physical danger. It's just uncertainty. But our brain still sends us that signal. And so in order to get past that, just making your guests feel like it's a safe place with a safe kinds of questions that kind of lead them down that opportunity to be open and be free and be vulnerable is I think that the best episodes to listen to when you know people are just getting comfortable enough to be themselves.

Jen Edds: You know, it's interesting, the people that are like, Oh, I'm just going to sit down and press record. And there's no thought into what this conversation is going to look like and what you want out of it and what you want out of it for your listener and what you want. I mean, I feel like the guests needs to get something out of that too. And there's such a skill set of getting people to open up and really share those stories that I think until you get behind the microphone and try to start having those conversations, you really have no idea how difficult that can be.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: Back to the uncertainty thing, I'm a good interviewer. I came, years and years ago, I worked for a staffing company. So I was a professional interviewer of jobs, right? So it's still a skillset that I possess. That's really served me well in the podcast. And so even though I was comfortable just coming to the table and hitting record and taking the conversation where it needed to go, what I realized was that was the most uncomfortable for my guest. And so if I would instead give them a sense of, here are the two or three things that I think are really important about your story that I want to make sure we cover, and I don't want you to over- prepare. I just want you to know here that two or three things that I'm going to be asking about, that was a different comfort zone for them versus just show up and I'll hit record. That was too uncertain for them. Even though I was comfortable with it, I realized that they weren't. And so I wanted it to be an open, authentic show and not be too scripted, but I had to give them some nuggets to feel safe, that they knew what they were going to be asked while they were on

Jen Edds: And, friends, that is podcasting gold right there. As one of those ways to make a better show is just to kind of set that expectation upfront.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: And sometimes the two or three things we thought we were going to talk about became secondary to some of the cool stuff that showed up in the moment, but it was having the two to three bits that they were prepared with so they felt more comfortable to open up and share some of the deeper stuff that comes up.

Jen Edds: Now, what I want to know is where are you putting creativity to work for you in 2021?

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: There's several things that I've been stewing about for 2021. And I'm going to take this holiday season and give myself some time to sit and pray and think and meditate on it. But one of the things that I'm considering doing is using the podcast to do some guided reflections for my listeners, because the tagline of my show is reflection and connection for the high achieving woman, which can mean a lot of things. It means reflecting on do you know your unique gifts and talents, and then using them to connect. To reflect in terms of having that time of stillness in your life and not just always being on the go. There's a lot of ways that I use reflection and connection in my work, but I've been doing some sessions on personal branding and doing some guided reflection as part of my facilitation work. And it's amazing to me, how many really busy professionals say, Oh my gosh, I haven't taken the time to think like this in so long. And it felt so good. So I thought, gosh, couldn't I do that on the podcast? Couldn't I just have a couple of episodes at the beginning of the year where I say, Hey, bring your journal or just bring your time to just let your mind wander a bit. And so I'm going to do some reflection, guided reflection where I ask some questions and then I say, okay, just hit pause for as long as you need to, to journal about this or think about this. And then I'll hit you with another question when you're ready. And I'm excited to just see what happens with that. Cause I've not, I'm sure other people have done that. I mean, there's very little brand new stuff out in the world in general, but I've never listened to one like that. And I'm just curious to see how it's going to go. So we're going to give it a shot, which means that I've grown past the point of needing to make sure I'm doing it, quote unquote right. And I'm willing to try something just because it's an idea which feels really good and really freeing. Because you know what, it's my podcast. If it doesn't go well, I just won't do it again. Nobody dies. The consequences are very, very low.

Jen Edds: I think we'll just wrap it up with that podcasting wisdom right there.

Rebecca Fleetwood Hession: This is Rebecca Fleetwood Hession. Thanks so much for being here. We'd love to stay connected. We can do that if you jump into the online community at Badass Women's Council dot community. We've got lots of cool people in there already. And if you come in, it'll just be cooler.