At the Intersection of Technology and Technique

Darryl Praill: (Silence). How's it going everybody? Another week, here we are. I am so glad you came back. Isn't that true? You're wondering, are they going to come back? Are they going to listen to my episodes and say," Nay, nay, that was a waste of my time. I'm never, ever coming back." You know what, man, I'm telling you, imposter syndrome is rampant and we all have it. It's a fact of life. I had the best tweet I saw this week. We issued a release. We issued a release on the top 10 episodes in 2021 of the INSIDE Inside Sales show. If you've not seen that, just go to vanillasoft. com under resources podcast and you'll see the whole blog post and everything else in the top 10. And this is based on stats, based on your audience, your listenership, and who ranked the highest. And of course, one of my last episodes of the years with Sean finder and Sean whined to me, he said," I didn't have enough time to rank because I was last." And so we had to give him some extra love. We called him a little bit. We told him he was great. We told him that we love him. All the usual lies you tell somebody. And now apparently he's already in top three for 2022 is amazing because we haven't had three shows yet. So go figure that one out. So show Sean some love because he's high maintenance. By the way, that was a really good episode. He actually said to me, he goes," What is up with your show? I've had so many people reach out to me from your show, way more than ever before." And I said,"You got to understand. I said, my audience rocks, they're loyal." And that was one of the tweets I got that was in response to the 2021 top 10 issues. One of you, I can't remember your name, I apologize right now. I get so many notes. He said," I run with this show. This is my can't miss show. I love this show." And it means so much. It means so much. So thank you so much for that. But I want to share, I want to share something because you can listen to the show in audio or you can watch the show in video. And the on the video element, there's something I want to talk about here. This is something I was big on, whew, way back in 2019 when I really started getting big time into some of the production and the content work here and just trying to grow your social personal brand. And it was a big discussion. And what am I talking about? I'm talking about the video. I'm talking about the video quality. So I've got a beautiful camera here right now, right? I've got a beautiful mirrorless camera. It's not a cheap camera. I've got lighting. I've got mics. You see this mic and everything going on. And at the time, the argument was, I would say, if you want to be taken serious, you want quality gear. Quality tech. Your tech matters. That's what I would argue. And everybody would,"No, it doesn't matter. It's just about the contents, about the person. You can have shaky video, doesn't really matter. Portrait, landscape, I don't care. You're stupid, Praill." And I'm like," No." And here's the thing, I going to stop you for a second. I intentionally went out, this was very intentional, and I said," I want to stand out. For me to have success, I want to be known as a quality dude. I want to be known as a professional, as polished. I want my videos, my content to be an extension of who I project myself to be, who I want to be perceived as. So I'm going to have quality video. And then when I'm selling and they go check my content out, they go,'Holy smokes. This stuff killer content, killer tech. And I like this guy, I trust this guy.'" But it didn't end there. That was the video side. There was also the audio. So I am a big advocate for quality mics and there's things around that. If I snap my fingers here, like I'm doing right now, you don't really hear that because my microphone only picks up what's going on here. Hot on the end, meaning if I'm typing, or the dog's walking around it's toenails are on the floor, you don't hear all that incivilrey noise. And you just hear me. And I'm not afraid to talk like this, but too many of you put the mic way back and you talk like this and you sound like you're in an echo chamber and it's awful. Right now, my producer's yelling at me probably saying," Put the mic back by your face, Praill." And by the way, block your face. So the whole point was the audio conveys that your confident, that you're assured, that you carry a swagger, that you can be trusted. Because sales is all about trust, right? So what am I telling you? I'm telling you that I approached my brand. I approached my content. I approached my selling with an eye to my technology. My technology was an extension of me so then that allowed me to focus on my technique while leveraging my tech. Technology, technique, kind of see where I'm going this? Tech stack has never been bigger. They say in sales worlds today, that softwares subscriptions have become the biggest expense in every single company. If you look at how much we hear VanillaSoft spend on our sales team and our marketing team and making sure they have the tools they need to be successful, they have every single piece of information going, it's staggering. And one of the things I find myself teaching my reps is not necessarily to use the tech, but in fact, it's to use the tech. In other words, if you're going to do a follow up email, I could go to Gong and I could use this technology to itemize key snippets of sound bites that came across in a discovery call and I can include that so I come across as a rockstar. Technology, technique. Now, this is just me giving you some examples. What I'm trying to point out is that sales is just not technique. Sales is just not technique. And we've never covered this topic before. So I thought who are the right people? Normally, I only have one person. This week we've got two who are the right people to talk about that intersection of technology and technique and how you should be applying it to achieve your goals. Now, I've given you one version. They may go off in a completely different tangent, but that's the theme. So with no further delay. Let me welcome to the show, John Klymshyn and Douglas Hall. Or shall we say Doug? Because Douglas just looks weird when you see it written down. Doug, how you doing, my friend?

Douglas Hall: Certainly does. I'm doing well. Darryl, how are you?

Darryl Praill: I'm well. John, how are you doing?

John Klymshyn: Doing exceptional and very excited that we're going to be able to explore a couple of things here. Not the least the of which is my favorite thing, which is language. And the more I look at your name and the more I hear you talk about what you do and your passion for quality, I want to let you know that in Ukrainian, Praill means quality.

Darryl Praill: Are you serious?

John Klymshyn: No. But I crosstalk thought I'd throw that out there in case it would work.

Darryl Praill: Okay crosstalk. His last name is Smith. It's John Smith, not John Klymshyn, just so we're clear on that.

John Klymshyn: That's exactly right. Klymshyn is a moniker.

Darryl Praill: It's a moniker. I never knew that. So that's in Ukrainian, you're saying?

John Klymshyn: That's exactly.... foreign language.

Darryl Praill: Oh my goodness. So we'll have a conversation offline about what's going on in Ukraine these days.

John Klymshyn: Okay.

Darryl Praill: That's killer. I never knew that. I see now Darryl, Darryl means darling. Which of course, looking at me, that's what you're thinking right now, aren't you? You're thinking darling.

John Klymshyn: It's one of my thoughts. Absolutely.

Darryl Praill: All right. So guys, where do you want to go with this? I know let's set the stage. All right. So you YouTube... For context, these guys have a program that they call, and I get this wrong guys, correct me, Bionic Sales and-

John Klymshyn: That's correct.

Darryl Praill: And this conversation we're having today is an element of that overall program. It's a bigger program than just this, we just don't have enough time to do the whole thing.

John Klymshyn: Sure.

Darryl Praill: But let's set the stage for the audience. John, Doug, both, talk to us a little bit about who you are, what you do. And while they're doing that, folks, if you're at your computer, you should be going to LinkedIn right now and following them. John's pretty straight forward, there's not a lot of Klymshyns, K- L- Y- M- S- H- Y- N, but there are a few Douglas Halls. So Doug is with Advocate& Associates. And by the way, I just want to side step for a second, get a chance. I mean, they both have great profiles, but Douglas's tagline. I love it. Antihero, strategist, sales theorist, ENFJ. Right? So he's got his own Myers- Briggs. Raconteur, virtual Sherpa, hoodrat, my mom thinks I'm awesome, I'm happy with my financial advisor and I'm not interested in any franchise opportunities. If that doesn't get your attention, I don't know what does. So funnel those guys out. Go for it, talk to us a little bit about what you guys do.

John Klymshyn: Doug, go.

Douglas Hall: Well, John and I are both big fans of sales. I think it's we're passionate sales practitioners. And as a, I said on my profile theorist, but I currently run an organization Advocate& Associates. We're a growth firm, we help companies grow and scale. But I've been in sales since my mother found out I took my books to the corner and sold them when I was six because my thought was I had already read them so why would I keep them? And from there, I've run small, large sales teams, startups. I've sold my soul in some of those scenarios and learned more than I cared to know about the sales world. But it's just been obsession for me my entire life. And have you met John?

John Klymshyn: Doug... I have been in the sales game, the sales profession, for a long time. And my early is selling work was selling greeting cards up and down the street on Glenwood Lane in Huntington on Long Island. The draw to selling, for me, it took a long time for me to come to the conclusion, or to have the epiphany that is so great to have when everyone else around you already knows this about you and you discover it. It just the occurred to me, several years into the profession, that the reason I was so passionate about the power of selling and the thrill of selling, was that it was number one, a creative enterprise. And number two, that it was all driven by language. And language, at its core, is music. As a musician, I'm a trained listener and a discipline listener. And I found that that was a great add on or a great kind of constant tool in my selling pursuits and in my leadership pursuits. Because as a listener, you gather, you learn, and you draw people to you. In one of my books, it says the more I listen to what you say, the more fascinating you find the me. So Doug and I found each other by being introduced by a common friend. We found a lot in common, not the least of which is, is while there's a little bit of a difference in our age, turns out we grew up about eight miles away from each other. And he had a very different professional path than mine, over many years, but our passion for excellence and our interest in not only growing ourselves but helping others grow, it spawned what Sale Bionic is all about. So Bionic Sales is the intersection, as you were so beautifully kind of crafting the introduction for us there, Darryl, was the flashpoint was us discussing the intersection between technology and technique. Technology is something that is outside of us. Technique is inside of us. It's something that we gain, that we build, that we go from being an apprentice to a journeyman to hopefully a master in. And the more he and I talked about it, and the more we recorded our Zoom conversations, the more we thought we might be onto something. And now here we are, a couple of years later, with this nine application mindset and methodology that we're helping people kind of explore. So we're thrilled to be on this with you to share these ideas and the intersection of technology and technique can be the flashpoint for great success for inside salespeople and account executives.

Douglas Hall: Absolutely. And I think the big piece here too, and I was just going to add to that, is we realized early on that core selling practices and principles have to be applied in all situations. But as AI and technology and the whole world is digitizing, and now post pandemic, this accelerant of everybody now requiring Zoom connections and a much different environment than what a Willy Loman, door- to- door salesman, was experiencing back in the day. But there's still core sales skills that that type of salesperson should carry on in the genetic DNA of the evolving sales person. So when we looked at the technology, it's how do we maintain some sort of understanding that sales is still the same, it's just the tools that we use have changed and we have to adapt and adopt those tools in order to be better at our craft.

Darryl Praill: I just want to interrupt for a second, because if I was at a drinking game, I'd be in trouble right now. If I was to count some kind of pop culture references, we have Willie Loman, Death of a Salesman. Do you see got that in there? They're eight miles apart, I'm thinking Eminem, Eight Mile. All right. And then we have Doug brought in John, where he said," Have you met John?" Which is a classic a line from How I Met Your Mother where Barney will always say," Have you met Ted?" So those are three classic references I got right now. I don't know if you meant to do that, but either I need to watch less TV, or you guys are brilliant. Okay.

Douglas Hall: An average day in my office, my team has pretty much just gone away with asking me what that's from. They wait now until they see something and go," Oh, that's what he was talking about."

Darryl Praill: There we go.

Douglas Hall: I'd say 20% of my day is probably movie lines.

Darryl Praill: So did I do well? Did I pick up on that and did okay?

Douglas Hall: You did well.

John Klymshyn: Fantastic.

Darryl Praill: Yes.

Douglas Hall: Very well.

Darryl Praill: Okay.

John Klymshyn: Nice job.

Darryl Praill: So let's talk about this. You guys talk about tools and you talk about tech stack. You talk about technique. It is a reality of every salesperson working here today. What's the problem? Are we not embracing the tech to our advantage? Is that the issue or what? And then help us, and walk me through with some examples of possible, how I can embrace it, or I can extend it, or I can incorporate it so that I am not just a technique in machine. I'm a tool in technique, or tech and technique machine. And I get a bigger ROI on my investment and in my efforts.

Douglas Hall: I think the first piece is to not allow the tech or the tool, as we say, because these are all tools, to a change you. It's always about the right tool for the job. John and I talk about it. Nobody says," Hand me that tool." You have to look at this and say, if I've got a new CRM, it doesn't change who I am as a seller. It's supposed to accentuate or help who I am as a seller. So finding those things that make you better, rather than it turning you into what we say as a robot. So we use the line, I'm not a robot, I'm bionic. And you can see that all day with the way people are using lead gen tools to just automatically blast people on LinkedIn. I mean, we have a part of the program called You're Doing It Wrong, because I love messing with those. And it's just a lot of fun watching somebody have to backpedal out of a statement and then I try to do it to help. But it's you're dehumanizing the whole time. You're turning yourself into a machine and that's not what the point was in the first place. It was supposed to optimize your process, not change it to the point where it's completely a separation of your own self.

Darryl Praill: So context, folks, what do I want to go with this one? Many of you resist technology. You resent it. You think it's an obligation as opposed to a tool. That's the first part. I want to just reference that. Second part, is many of you resist the technique. Doug was just talking about you're supposed to grow your own technique, and instead you rely, and John and Doug and I before we went live, that you just do templated email after templated email after templated email, right? That's not a technique. That's just a copy and paste. So there you go.

John Klymshyn: And it's a cop out.

Darryl Praill: It's a cop out. Okay. So I want to set that so people could relate and connect. So carry on, John.

John Klymshyn: Well, okay. So a couple of different ways to go with this and I'll just start talking and hope that something brilliant comes out. When you talk about who's brilliant, Doug is the brilliant one and I bask in that and somehow I get a little bit of a tan. When someone says," Hand me a tool," no one ever says," Hand me a tool." What they say is," Hand me a Philips head screwdriver, hand me a ball pein hammer." So when you're talking about sales people that are given tools by their employer, those tools were very specifically chosen to help that person not have to be involved in things that were distractions. When I first started playing guitar, which I did late in life compared to most people, my first guitar teacher was classically trained. And the first two lessons, the first full minute of the lesson, he sat there and he would just stare me down and say," Technique. Technique." He wanted me to have my fingers in a very specific position. He wanted the angle-

Douglas Hall: He also can't speak English and it was the only word he knew, but-

John Klymshyn: That's true. That's right. foreign language, Praill.

Douglas Hall: I think he needs to find inaudible.

John Klymshyn: That's right. But what he was talking about was, he said," I don't care what music you want to play. Where we're going to start is how you..." It's like that old line of address the ball in golf, right? Hello ball. It was how you approach the guitar and how you hold the guitar so that you can draw music out of it. So I had another music teacher who said," I just, I'm not really passionate about the guitar, because it's just a tool to me." He was disconnected from what the music could be. Because if it is really your tool, it is really your instrument, that's your opportunity to draw your greatest talent out and to be able to share it with people. So when we are choosing a tool or a tool has been chosen for us first, let's figure out what the purpose of the tool really is. Second, let's make sure that we hold it properly and that we honor it by using it consistently, before we make judgments on whether or not that tool is for us. So that has got to feed our technique because our technique is our mindset. Our technique is how do I want to go about this? And how can I become wildly proficient at moving conversations forward? Because when I'm wildly proficient at moving conversations forward, it's invisible to the prospect or to the customer, and that's when we can elevate what it is that we do, to what Doug and I refer to as, this is a methodology and a mindset. It's not a tactic, its not a if then scenario. If the prospect says this, then you should say that and you will get the deal every time. What a load of bunk.

Darryl Praill: Doug's shaking his head.

Douglas Hall: No in agreement. I'm saying," Yeah, that's just it." I agree with everything with John said, and full transparency, I agree with it because we worked on it for about 200 hours before we released it. But I'm shaking my head at that whole approach. I hate the dehumanization piece of it. But when we talk about the tool, I know it's the samurai ideology of the sword is the extension of the arm. I actually name my phones after famous swords. So right now I think I'm on staying it with Excalibur. The last phone was Excalibur. But I do that to remind myself that if this isn't honed, I'm not converting and moving my pipeline. I'm not managing my day. If this is my tool, I better keep it sharp. And so when we look at that, it's people that get into these types of systems and they just become those robots. They become that self repeating thing. They lose themselves in the process as well. And connectivity and engagement is what sales is about. And trust is what sales is about. And you lose that when you start the conversation on a lie, and we talked about this earlier, but your messages should read like they're coming from you. If I hear you on this... Darryl, we're on this session right now, if I got an email from you and it didn't feel like the guy that I'm talking to right now, it wouldn't feel real. It would feel contrived. And sales people spend all day masking themselves. And really the best converters, the best closers, are the ones that are actually authentic. That can directly engage with the prospect, that can be in the moment. And if they use their tools the right way, they can get more access than they've ever had before.

Darryl Praill: Okay. So I want to jump in here because... This is a tough topic, guys. I'm not going to argue. It's not a hard topic, it's a little abstract, but it's also really fricking powerful. Because your company, assuming you're working for somebody as supposed to be self- employed, has invested in all likelihood, a lot of money in your tools. And you heard John talk about technique and you heard Doug talk about really embrace the tool. So think about this way. And guys, if I get this wrong, please correct me, because this is how I was hearing you as you were saying that. I could go on LinkedIn and look up John Klymshyn, I could see his profile. Or I could go into Sales Navigator and I could know I have invested the time to learn all the nuances and capabilities of Navigator, and I could learn not only about John, but about 10 other people just like John that I could be talking to. And then I could go into other tools, research tools, et cetera, to get all this background on who John is and what he is about and what his history is, his passions are, what he does for a living, what his challenges are, maybe some other content, but these are all tools. These are all tools. And you have tools. Whether there again it's Going or Chorus or your CRM or your ZoomInfo or what... I'm just making this up. All these tools are there so that when you embrace them, you have so much knowledge and so much confidence in what you have in your bag, what you have is background, that you're not reliant upon a trick, an email template. You are allowed to actually connect and have a dialogue and get very specific very quickly. We talked about personalization versus relevance. With all that research, you can beyond personalization to relevance. Why we're having this conversation, why it matters. Here's context. Here's why I think you should care based on everything I know about you. But I watch too many of you get scared of the tool and either don't use it or just have a superficial understanding, and then it actually holds you back, because you feel like you don't know what the hell you're doing. You're scared of it. That's what my reaction was when I was hearing you talk.

Douglas Hall: Yeah. And Darryl, I think you have inspired me to that next step is the reason you do that is A, you're scoring your prospect. You're making sure you're using your time as efficiently as possible. You know that information so that you don't get on a demo or a discovery call with someone who's not ideal for you in the first place. But the second piece of that is it frees you up of the obligation of having to do anything else except learn about your prospect when the call happens. You can ask deeper questions. You can engage, you can get personal because you already have all the data, you now have an opportunity to connect. That's the human piece when you put the tool down. So it's finding the purpose and understanding what the tool is there to do and then using it for that. And a lot of times we look at a CRM, we treat it like it's a phone book, or we look at a prospecting tool like a email blast or whatever it is, and we look at it as some shred and spread kind of a tactic. And we don't use it to match our style. And a lot of those tools have those features. But if you understand their purpose, you'll use them correctly to best fit your need and allowed you to be in an authentic version of yourself at scale.

Darryl Praill: Okay. So you've mentioned several times your style. So can we drill down on that a little bit? Because I want to understand when you say your style, what are you specifically referring to? Just so we're explicit here, and how does that dovetail back into the tech in the technique?

Douglas Hall: So John and I have very different styles of selling. We happen to sell well together, but we're different sellers. I'm a more laid back, nonchalant, here's the program. I'll talk to you a few times, see if we could work together. Maybe we do, maybe we don't. Then go for the ask when the time is right. John is more of the, let's talk about the issue, let's move this conversation to another point, and then I'll challenge a couple of times. And that's his style versus my style. We use this a lot, and we try not to over masculinize the program, but it's like when you think of a street fighter or any of those old school, blood sport type movies where every fighter has a different skill, every fighter comes in once a... If we get on that game and it's always like, if you just picked the woman, you probably would've won. Because she's the most nimble and moves around. But the big dude, he's slow and he does this, and everybody's got a different weapon. Well, that's how sellers are. We're all different. But they all go and they harness those things. So John's style of sales is different than mine. So if we go into some cookie cutter scenario where a bunch of AEs are sitting next to each other and it's like," This is what you say, and this is when you say, and this is your answer to this objection." Every single one of those persons is a different type of human being with a different personality and every single one of them can sell in their own way. So you give them the ability to drive the car and you give them the best car possible, but you don't sit in the passenger seat and say," When something gets in your way, turn." You let them master that vehicle because that's their vehicle. And when you focus on it like that and when the individual, the AE, the SDR says, you know what? This is a pretty badass tool. I know I have to put some notes in here, but it's got this little feature. And if I tweak it out, I can get seven more emails out and I can learn this many more things before I can schedule discoveries. And they hack that little piece of it. They're going to soar right ahead of the person next to them

John Klymshyn: And being such a fanatic for language, Doug and I have talked about this before, I do not want to be a passenger because passenger has the same prefix as passive. I want to be the navigator because the navigator is directly involved in where the vehicle is headed. The navigator is what is our ultimate objective, what are we looking to accomplish here. One of my campaign issues, in my million years in professional selling and developing salespeople, is let's stop looking for problems. Let's explore what the opportunities are. And if the opportunity lines up with my product service experience, platform or idea, I want you to discover that on your own. That's my technique. Well, I will ask questions like what criteria will you ultimately use to determine who will serve you? I don't ask questions about what they think about what I offer. I don't ask questions about who they currently work with. None of those have anything to do with what the future opportunity is. So the technique, Doug's technique is, listen, this is what I do. And this is what we do. And we have a team and we're really good crosstalk-

Douglas Hall: I'll crosstalk for free. but if you really want my time, you got to pay for it.

John Klymshyn: That's exactly right.

Douglas Hall: I'm good on clients right now, and I am, but it's just a different style.

Darryl Praill: Okay. So in both those scenarios, so Doug, John, you have two different styles. So now let's connect the dots. How does the technology affect your style or influence your style?

Douglas Hall: That's a great question. So there's... One idea came right to mind, but we do talk about out in our curiosity application, a... I'm going to talk about how technology can suit both styles regardless first.

Darryl Praill: Sure. Yep.

Douglas Hall: And then we can then answer the second piece. So John and I actually accidentally demoed this methodology or this tactic on a call that we were both selling in. And we talk about with curiosity to get 10 seconds of pause, to ask good enough questions and they get comfortable being uncomfortable, letting time just lapse. So in this scenario, John and I both using technology to do a pitch to someone that's in an airport on their phone, we are dancing around each other, because I'm doing the more let me show you how this works and John's doing his style of asking powerful of questions and moving it through. But at the same time, we were able to see each other on our call and we got to a point where we asked a question... And we actually have a video of this I could probably share with you guys where I put some crickets in the audio bed. But John asked him what they thought of what I just said. And I think we sat for like 20 something seconds, John. And then we got," So can you guys just send a proposal or something?" And we just both looked and nodded. But it was both of us coming in our unique style, it's like a tag team match. But we were able to use being in two different places, managing a CEO with his COO sitting next to him in an airport, being able to put the pitch in, being able to keep their attention, and being comfortable enough in our methodology to say," I'm good just sitting here until he answers," and not trying to fill that void. I mean, it's powerful because that's something that you used to only be able to do in front of someone. And so that's a way that we were using technology and up applying it through all these video tools. And I don't think that would've happened if my microphone wasn't good. If my audio wasn't good. If I couldn't hear the noise behind him. I mean, you use those tools. And another way that we talk about a lot, you've never been in a more intimate position with prospects then you've ever been since the pandemic, because I know things about John's life from his background on his shot right now, that I would never know if I was meeting him at a coffee shop or his offices. The idea that we're in people's homes allows us to be even more connected. So the idea of owning your video, owning your communication tools means that when you connect with a prospect, you're not on some choppy device. They don't get to know you, you're just the bad ATT& T operator, at that point.

Darryl Praill: There's so many amazing references there to technology. And if you missed it, Doug's talking about the audio, the video, the ability for John and Doug to keep an eye on each other, that before they couldn't have done unless they were in person. So they're bringing... That's just one example of bringing tech in. I can use a similar example where just this morning I had a 30 minute call scheduled. Call starts, it's me and two other people, first time meeting, video. We're into it for two minutes, and the one in the video to me," Darryl, do you do podcasting or something?" And I'm like," Well, why do you say that?" He was like," You just got a really good picture and you sound really good. And I like your backdrop. And it's just you don't see this." That 30 minute meeting became an hour meeting and we've scheduled a follow up call. So the opening tech was an influence. And that's what I be clear about this, guys. This is my office. This is where I work at from home, but it is intentionally configured and optimized for video calls, because I know that's part of my... It's a technique I can bring into so that I can actually allow myself to leverage as I do my own thing that I'm good at. That's what I'm trying to say to you. Doug used the same example there. Guys, we're running out of time. If you could give the audience any possible applications of your wisdom that they could apply right now to make themselves marginally better, what would that be?

Douglas Hall: I think if you're doing any outbound, A/ B, run a split test right now, just do an A/ B test. Take your standard messaging you've been putting out and take that same message and cut it in half. Put it your voice. Now granted your industry, there's... I know certain industries, there's certain regulations. You can't just come out and be yourself. You got to stay within certain realm of what's expected, but be yourself. Just change the tone. Split that up. If you send a hundred emails a day, 50/ 50. If you send ten, 5/ 5. Whatever it is. Not only look at what you're response rates look like, especially on first time, net new opens, look at what that looks like further down the pipeline. How much you actually are able to move people from stage to stage, based on that initial reaction, and just write it down every day. But just do that little self hack. If you reach out by phone, change your approach on half your calls. What does my script look like on half? What does my just go in there and ask them if they recognize my name, it's one of coach Kayza tactics back there. But playing with the phone call, asking them questions you would ask somebody if you ran into them in an elevator, and being yourself. And if you just split those and actually give yourself a real metric to test, look at that and see how much more successful you are. See how much more efficient you are just being yourself instead of rewriting the same email for 10 minutes.

John Klymshyn: And mine is if you use the telephone, which I know is very old technology, if you use the telephone to reach out to humans that don't know you so that you can establish some sort of future forward paying relationship. Once you introduce yourself, ask this three word question. This three word question has been responsible for millions of dollars of revenue because what it does is it changes the dynamic of the conversation in the first 18 seconds. And the question is," How's my timing? If you ask," Do you have a minute?" you are immediately putting yourself into asking for permission. You are not engendering an invitation to continue. If I ask you," How's my timing," I am leveraging my ability to get you thinking in a way that you have not been thinking up until that moment. Within that question, I'm showing respect for your time. I am not assuming that because you answered the phone that we're going to be good friends. And I have played a tune for you that has somehow some way resonated a little bit differently from all the other calls that you've accepted today.

Douglas Hall: We call it positive pattern interruption.

John Klymshyn: Pattern interruption.

Darryl Praill: Yeah. So I was going to say, it's a classic pattern interrupt. That was exactly where I was going to go with that. And yet the prospect still feels in control because he's allowed to answer the question, but you've already guided how he's going to respond to that. Right?

John Klymshyn: And if he says that, if he or she says,"You know what, the timing's not good." When should we talk, we're already in process.

Douglas Hall: inaudible his style is mine, then why did you answer?

Darryl Praill: Yep. That's the point people forget about, they answered the call so they're not opposed to talking, right? So I love you on that one.

John Klymshyn: They want a distraction. They want the next thing. They are curious.

Douglas Hall: And don't worry about what they think about you, just worry about whether or not you could serve them with your product.

Darryl Praill: Let's bring it back. We opened up by talking about pop culture references which was also, I want go back to Bionic Sales, and I can't help but thinking of Lee majors and The Six Million Dollar Man. But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But talk to me about-

John Klymshyn: No, no. It's different from that.

Douglas Hall: We talked about crosstalk-

Darryl Praill: Oh, crosstalk that's fantastic. I could have said Lindsay Wagner, but I went, there we go. Everybody's going, who the hell is Lindsay Wagner? Look it up, kids.

John Klymshyn: They're Googling them as they're walking.

Darryl Praill: Yeah, exactly." Who is Lindsay Wagner?"

Douglas Hall: inaudible push anybody off a boat. Right?

John Klymshyn: No.

Darryl Praill: Talk to me about Bionic Sales. You mentioned that what we talked about today was just one infinitesimally small section of the overall program. If they want to learn more, if my audience wants to know more about Bionic Sales because you've intrigued them, because clearly what you've said here is different than what you always hear. It's refreshingly different. Where would I go?

Douglas Hall: sellbionic.com.

Darryl Praill: sellbionic. com.

Douglas Hall: Yep. And we actually, and if you're interested in just chatting with John and I, we have a weekly Clubhouse we do every Friday. What is it? 9: 15 Eastern time in the Sales Club, it's called Bionic Sales. Super easy to find. It's an open discussion we've been doing about eight months. We have a lot of repeat people, it's not just us chatting on it. But same type of topic. We wanted to give something back and have people at any stage be able to come in and have the conversation. If you're interested in the program though, that's where you can find us.

Darryl Praill: That's dynamite tech.

John Klymshyn: If you want a more direct response, you can email notabot @sellbionic.com.

Darryl Praill: Not a bot.

John Klymshyn: Not, N- O- T, A- B- OT at sellbionic. com. I thought you'd like that, Darryl, because crosstalk big you on language.

Darryl Praill: That's crosstalk awesome. I'm loving all this. I'm loving that your call to action was not just the website, but it was also the clubhouse. And then notabot@ sellbionic. com. That's just dynamite. And again, all of those guys, talk to me, those are also interrupts, right? Because that's not what you were expecting. It was... And, but they're using the technology to facilitate all that. I mean, Clubhouse, we didn't talk about that, but talk about using a different technology to allow your technique to explore. Oh, my inaudible.

Douglas Hall: Multichannel. Oh my God. Getting somebody to connect on LinkedIn after meeting them on Clubhouse is butter. You've already had a conversation.

Darryl Praill: Yeah. I mean, it's not cold at that point, folks, it's warm and maybe hot. Anyway, that's Doug Hall. You can see him on LinkedIn. He's with Advocated& Associates. You met John Clemson, you'll see him also on LinkedIn. Follow them. Sellbionic. com is the website. 9: 15 Friday mornings Clubhouse, same thing, open conversation, go in. It's the best way to get to know somebody and what they stand for and what they're about. Not just from them, but from their community. And that's what this is all about. That's what it's all about here, folks, on the INSIDE Inside Sales show/ I'm so glad you joined us today. You take care. We'll talk to you soon. Bye bye.

Douglas Hall: Thanks for having us.