Most sales professionals have a negative perception of follow-up, sadly throwing away the opportunity to stand out and connect with their prospects.
This week on INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl is joined by Best-Selling author and foremost authority on the follow-up, Jeff Shore. Darryl and Jeff discuss the science behind why following-up can help you to close more deals, the optimal multi-channel strategy to leverage, as well as dispelling the myths and mental hang-ups behind why SDRs avoid the follow-up. They also talk about the wisdom of finding commonalities between you and your prospects and how following-up can lead to the benefit of referrals. Don’t miss learning how to maximize your prospect’s emotional altitude and close more deals on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!
Speaker 1: Welcome to the INSIDE Inside Sales podcast with your host, Darryl Praill. Join us every week as we interview industry leaders and experts to uncover the ways they're finding sales success today. Tune in as Darryl brings you actionable strategies and tactics that can immediately increase your sales and success.
Darryl Praill: My friends, how are you doing? We're back. It's another week. Last I checked, it's still 2021. Last I checked, nobody's missing 2020. And if you recall, if you listened to last week's episode, we were shopping for our car. I'll give you an update on that soon and how that's going because, lo and behold, somewhat the story will continue into this week because it's applicable. In fact, let's just get right into it. So, last episode was about how we'd done all this intent signals. We'd done our research on it. My wife's looking for car. We'd done this research online. We checked out the dealership. We did the Yelp reviews, the Google reviews. We knew it was a good dealership. We'd gone. We'd gone to the lot. We saw all these cars we wanted to. We walked inside into the dealership in the middle of a Canadian winter, so to get warm, get a hot chocolate, use the bathroom. And as she talked to our rep about buying a car, you would think with all those buyer intent signals that physically, it was we'd just go and demo the cars. But, instead he spent the next 30 minutes qualifying us and covering our pain points. Yes, he uncovered our pain points and it was a wonderful time. Many lessons to be learned from the car industry. If you didn't listen to that episode, go listen to it again. But, where do we pick up from there? Where we pick up from there is what happened. So, this is what happened. That was on a Saturday. The dealership's closed on a Sunday. So, on a Monday, my wife goes over there and says," I want to take the car out for three, four hours and drive around with it," because she has a couple of herniated disc,"I want to see if it hurts my back on a prolonged period of time." And then, they said," No problem." And it was really good actually that we had that conversation on Saturday before we left. Why it matters is that Monday morning, we get a message from the rep, simply saying," Just letting you know, the car is prepped and ready for you. And by the way, there's no late fees. We're not like the doctors, or the dentist or anybody else. Take your time. Enjoy the ride." Very personal, very engaging. We showed up. She shows up. She does the thing, goes around for three, four hours doing her errands. Remarked on how the gas gauge didn't move. Loved the vehicle, except the seat was too narrow. My wife's not a big woman, but the seat was too narrow and it was causing her discomfort with those same herniated disc. So, the car, despite everything else being great, and the rep being great, was a bust. You would think that's the end of the sale. That is an objection. That's a hard objection when you're selling vehicles. I don't like this car. Yet, over the course, since that's gone on, we've had a handful of correspondence to him. Further qualification," What is it specifically? You need something with a wider seat. Fair enough. Let me look at my options. Oh, look, I've got this vehicle here." And he's mixed it up. Text message here and email there. Phone call here. Not stalkery, you don't feel like he's just looking for a reason. No pressure. He's not saying," You need to come in now."" Let me know when you want to come in. I'll have it ready for you. Would you mind if I send you a few links to some of the cars? Tell me to stop whenever you want. I don't want to be that guy." And my wife turns to me last night and says," You know what? I really like this guy." Now, we didn't know this guy from Adam." I really like this guy. I want to buy a car from this guy if I can." So, check that out. We've not found a car, but because of how this agent, this rep interacted with us, the tonality, the timing, the channel, the value, the lack of a pressure sale, my wife is looking for a reason to buy from this sales rep. Isn't that what you want? Can you imagine? Yeah. I want to sell you this million dollar piece of software." Well, I don't like your software, but please, do you have another piece of software you can sell me? Because I really like you that much." That's where we're at right now. This rep has simply done this by taking some time, as inaudible last episode, of doing some decent sales qualification, not just making any assumptions. We talked about W versus TED. W, last time, was what we all do. Why, what, who, why, why, why? TED, a little softer approach. Tell me more. Explain to me. Describe what this would look like to you, TED. And he's continued the TED. We're going to call that from now on. It's going to be a dance move. Instead of the Carlton, it's going to be the TED. And he varied the TED, he's done this on email, on social, on phone. Actually not a social, sorry, but text. You get the idea, multiple channels. And my wife loves it. She's my actual laboratory is what she is. And that's when I said," I have got to get an expert on here," because the last one I did was I brought an expert on and saying," This person was so great on discovering pain, I need to get a pain point expert." And that's what we did. Now, I'm going," This person is so great on doing follow- up and the importance of how it can help you close a sale. That's what I need to do." So, I'm just taking my life, you're living it with me and because of this fine rep at the local Nissan dealership here in Ottawa, Canada, this is what's driving our content calendar for the INSIDE Inside Sales show. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show, Mr. Jeff Shore. Jeff, how are you doing today, my friend?
Jeff Shore: I'm doing great, Darryl. And I have to say, that's such a good story of a salesperson who's doing it right. And I was talking to a salesperson recently who did a great job on his follow- up. I won't give you the whole story, but he did a great job. And then, I asked him," Did they buy?" And this is what he said. He said," No, but they had the decency to feel bad about it." And I thought that was really great. That's a great way to look at it. You know you're doing your job that even if you don't get the sale, your customer feels bad that they didn't buy from you, which sounds like how you will feel if you have to buy from somebody else. We're not going to always have the right product, but we can always have the right relationship. It's a great story. I love it.
Darryl Praill: Well, the funny part about that too, is, I mean, what am I going to do? In her case, I'm going to go on an international podcast and talk about them. But, for many people, they're just going to do referrals," You got to meet this guy. Oh, you're looking for a Nissan product? Go talk to this guy. Here, let me do an introduction for you. I couldn't buy because of my back, but you should talk to this guy. I trust this guy." And we all know the biggest lead source, the biggest way to start a sale is through a referral. So, even when you don't win, you still win. And so, folks, why did I ask Jeff to join us? Well, if you don't know Jeff, you should. He's the founder and president of Shore Consulting. He's the host of the popular sales podcast, The Buyer's Mind. He's a top- selling author. Most recently, go to Amazon, you'll see his book called Follow Up and Close the Sale. See follow up? See that? Follow Up and Close the Sale: Make Easy Follow- Up Your Winning Habit. Five stars, baby, on Amazon. And it's not with one or two reviews, it's got a boatload of reviews. So, there's telling you something. And I had a chance to read the book. Now, you know what we do here at VanillaSoft, we're a sales engagement platform. The very definition of our being is for follow- up. And I'm going through this book, going,"Oh my gosh, I could just take his book, and get rid of all my marketing material and sales collateral. And every time someone calls us, say,'Just read this book. Come back here. Sign the deal. We're done. We'll help you out.'" So, Jeff, what I want to talk about today is I want to talk about follow- up, if that's okay with you, so we can learn from you because you are the expert as is the sales rep selling Nissan cars. And let's get into it. Let's get into what we should do, what we shouldn't do, why it matters, if that's okay with you.
Jeff Shore: Sure. Absolutely. It sounds like fun.
Darryl Praill: So, let's start off with the baseline. So, when we say follow- up, what does that mean to you?
Jeff Shore: Well, when you're purchasing anything at all, you're going to make a decision that's largely based on your emotion. It's supported by logic, but it's an emotion- based decision. I think we all know that. I don't think we are... Modern Science is telling us how much is based on emotion. The Swedish researcher Martin Lindstrom did a study. He actually hooked people up to a functional MRI, reading brainwaves while they were making purchase decisions. His research says 85% of the decision is emotionally based. So, then you look and you say," Well, when is the emotion the highest?" And it's when you're engaged. It's when you're trying it on, or playing with it, or driving it or whatever the case may be. And so, we track something called emotional altitude, and I talk a lot about this in the book, that emotional altitude is very, very high when you're engaging with the product, when you're engaging with that salesperson. But, what happens once you step away? Almost immediately, that emotional altitude begins to wane. And the purpose of follow- up is to sustain that emotional altitude, to keep that emotional altitude high, so that that customer who's going to make an emotion- based decision will stay with you. The longer we go without following up, the more that emotional altitude just falls off the planet. And pretty soon, you're just forgotten. And that's not a good thing, generally, in sales.
Darryl Praill: So, that's already hitting on your book, it opens up with the why of follow- up. And that's to stay engaged and stay relevant or is there even more than just that?
Jeff Shore: Well, listen, I sort of look at everything from the perspective of I'm interested in the way that salespeople sell, but I'm much more interested in the way that buyers buy. And even business buyers make emotion- based decisions. There are different types of emotions, but they're still emotional decisions. So, how do we sustain that emotional altitude? How do we keep people emotionally engaged? And it's not simply by just firing more facts and figures, although that's a part of the follow- up effort. It's a matter of having people feel like they are connected, like they're being served, like somebody out there is thinking about their issues, their concerns and their problems. How do we sustain that emotional altitude, so that when they are ready to buy, we're going to be their supplier of choice?
Darryl Praill: All right. So, I'm going to stop right there because you said something that is so... I don't know, I want to say impactful, that most reps never quite understand. You made the point, it's not the way sellers sell. I mean, that's interesting. It's the way buyers buy. So, folks, when you're selling, it's not about you. Yes, you've got to call. You've got to hit so many dials a day, and send so many emails and do so many social media touches. And many of you view that as," I have to do this, so my boss doesn't rag on me because my activity numbers are down." That's not it. You're doing this because of exactly what Jeff said. It's about how buyers buy. You're doing this because that's how your buyer buys. So, it's not about you, it's about them. And if you do your job right, then they'll come to you. So, then talk to me about some of what you see often, Jeff. And folks, listen up. See if this is you. You talk about in your book about typical mistakes and consequences, and you talk about the bad news, about the myths. You talk about the numbers don't lie. Share that with us, so our audience can go," Oh yeah, that's me. I can identify."
Jeff Shore: Right. Well, when I was researching the book, I was happy to be reading at the same time. I wasn't thinking that I was going to use this in the book, but I was reading, rereading actually, Steven Pressfield's incredible book called The War of Art, which is a book that he wrote for creative types, painters, writers, those types of people, to talk about what happens with, what we commonly call, writer's block. It's a creativity block. And he talks about this sort of almost mythical beast that he calls resistance, capital- R Resistance. It's that force that sort of gets in the way and tells you," You don't want to do this now. You would rather do that. You want to check Facebook over here. You want to anything other than lean in." Well, that resistance definitely plays a part when it comes to sales professionals and follow- up. Oftentimes, salespeople have a negative opinion of follow- up. It's uncomfortable. They've never enjoyed it possibly because they've not been trained how to do it well. And so, then that voice comes along and says," You don't want to be that guy. You don't want to be that telemarketer type of person who's just annoying people." And I would agree, you don't. But, when we look at that then, and say," I'm not going to do follow- up at all because that will be in my customer's best interest." No, you're falling way short of the value that you could provide. So, it really begins with the mental hang- up that I think a lot of salespeople have.
Darryl Praill: Now, what about the myths? That chapter caught my attention, so share that with us.
Jeff Shore: Well, I think the biggest myth that salespeople have is that customers don't want them to follow up. And I think that we sometimes think about our own experience about the phone ringing during dinner and getting interrupted by a telemarketer or whatever. We find that distasteful. And indeed, it is. But, the idea that a customer doesn't want to follow up, well, then the question would be, well, why would they not want you to follow up? And if you're just picking up the phone and saying," Just checking in," as my friend Art Sobczak calls it the parole officer follow- up approach," I'm just checking in." There's no value being added. And so, that's the idea is that sometimes that myth is that we think we follow up, so that we can check the box on the CRM and keep the boss happy. But, rightly seen, following up is about extending the service. It's about serving long before anything else. So, when we think about how well we know the customer, if we know the customer well enough, you should never run out of material that will provide very, very valuable resources for your customer through the follow- up process. But, I think that's the single biggest myth that we deal with is that customers don't want us to follow up. And I say," No, customers don't want to be bothered. They don't want their time wasted. So, here's an idea. Don't waste their time. Provide something useful and you will not have to worry about that issue."
Darryl Praill: It's so weird you say that because just again, at the end of the day, and even when I was in this dealership, they asked some of the questionnaires," And what's your email address? And what's your phone number?" And you know as soon as you give those two, I'm either going to get a text, or an email or both. And you're at that time like," Oh, do I give it to them or not?" And it's no different than filling out a form on a website or anything else, once I give it, then I know I'm going to get it. And so, I've already given you permission, and therefore I expect you to follow up. I want you to follow up. I made that decision when I shared that with you. You didn't have to ask for it. I laughed, you had Art Sobczak on your podcast. Again, check it out, folks. It's the Buyer's Mind. It's like the who's who. I saw Blount on there. I saw Sobczak and a whole list of people, some great people. But, I had Art on our show too a while ago. And Art and I went through the whole process of how to leave a voicemail. So, they do want follow up, and you should call and you might get a voicemail. Don't just be the" I'm checking in" guy, exactly as you said. There is a science behind it. So, folks, if you haven't heard that episode, go check it out. Speaking of science, there's a science behind a podcast. That means we have to take a commercial, but guess what? The science says we will be back. Don't go anywhere.
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Darryl Praill: And it seems science was right, we're back. That's fantastic. All right. Let's move into what should a rep do when it comes to follow up? Now, let me set the stage a little bit. I'm making this open- ended, but I'm kind of curious, this is kind of the meat of the whole show here. Your book talks at length about the concept of personalization, but there's also lots of things you can do, whether it's video or different channels, email, what have you, social, text. You go into length about timing. Be fast, but not too fast kind of thing. And persistency, how many attempts do you make? So, talk to me about the whole, what can you teach my audience about how they should follow up, all of the above?
Jeff Shore: Sure. Well, they would start by the two, what I call, sales superpowers that are oftentimes not utilized, but they're available to everybody, and those would be speed and personalization. And the idea here is that a lot of salespeople are going to look at right from the very beginning and they'll say," Well, I'm going to follow up within 24 hours." And my first premise is that 24 hours is a lifetime when you've got an active buyer who's out there shopping around. They got their real world going on. Their teenager's being a pain. The boss is a jerk. And I've got three other places that I'm shopping at. 24 hours is a very, very long time, in my opinion, too long. Then, when I am going to follow up, I'm going to send this generic email that looks like every other email they've ever gotten. That's not speed and that's not personalized. So, I want to look at it and say," If we want to extend the emotional altitude, how do we do that?" Well, we keep them connected very, very quickly and we make sure that our email is always tailored to the customer. So, there is a point where maybe your CRM is going to take over, but that's not early. Early on, what you want to do is, I think sometimes the mistake that gets made by salespeople is they think of follow- up as a series of disconnected calls, or emails, or texts or whatever it is. You want to think of this as one long narrative. So, the conversation that you're going to have upfront before, for example, that visit to that showroom floor, carries right into their visit. And then, that's going to tie into the next call and that's going to tie into where... You want to think about it, this is a one long call, but think about it from this perspective. I'm that salesperson there in Ottawa in the car dealership. And you're there on the first visit. You drive away. Soon as you drive away, I pick up my smartphone and I send you a text message. And it just says," You know what? I talk to a lot of people in the course of my day, I really enjoyed that conversation. I know you said you want to be back on Monday. I'll have the car ready, but thanks so much. We'll see you Monday." Now, what did you do? You honored them. You thanked them. You stood out from everybody else. You put your phone number into their phone, so when you do call them, they know who you are and you've confirmed an appointment. You did that in less than 30 seconds at a cost of zero. And you've already stood out. This doesn't have to be difficult. We're not trying to cure cancer here, but those little things along the way that connect that customer to their initial emotional altitude and keep that high. And then, we look and say," How do I find the little ways to personalize that?" The things that you know about the customer, there's nothing that's not valuable. So, as you're personalizing, you're thinking through what you know about their life, about their commute, about their driving style or what they've driven in the past, about their pets, about their kids. I mean, whatever, all of those things are fodder for effective personalized follow- up as you move forward. Otherwise, what are you going to do? You're going to say the same generic crap that everybody else is sending and you're going to look exactly like everybody else. That's not how you stand out.
Darryl Praill: What are your thoughts on follow- up? I mean, there's two schools of thoughts. So, back in 2017, I think it was INSIDE Inside Sales published an article in Xant. I'm sorry, now known as Xant, published an article in HBR. It wasn't Harvard research, it was just an article that was published in HBR saying you need to follow up in the first five minutes and have a 10X return on your chance to engage a next step. We here at VanillaSoft, back two plus years ago, did a study with Telfer School of Management, 130 million records. And what we saw was if you follow up in the first five minutes, you actually negatively affect your likelihood because you became a bit of a stalker. But, you should ideally wait 20 minutes to an hour. Although, upwards of four hours is also doable. Then, the following, a year ago, we did a study of 2,000 B2B executives where we flipped it. Instead of saying what does our sales engagement platform of 130 million records say, what do buyers say they want to be followed up on? And what we got from them was if you follow up in about four hours, that's cool. But, if you wait more than a day, I've already forgotten about you. So, what have you seen? What do you advise?
Jeff Shore: Yeah, first of all, I'm not going to disagree with anything. If a customer just pulled away, the example that I just used, and I call that taillight follow- up, I'm going to stand by that because it's one- sided. It doesn't demand a response. It would be one thing if I was calling them as they were driving away and saying," Just wanted to confirm our appointment for Monday." That's over the top.
Darryl Praill: Agreed.
Jeff Shore: But, the text message is essentially a thank- you note. But, I do say very clearly in the book that that first point of voice- to- voice contact should not be 24 hours, so that is too long. And then, in fact, four hours is the sweet spot. So, if you met with them early in the day, then by the end of the day, you've had that opportunity to get back with them. If you're meeting with them later in the afternoon, then first thing the next morning, you're getting back to them. The key here is, again, you got to go back and ask what happens in the customer's lives? What happens to their emotional altitude after they leave? Because the book here is all about what do you do when the customer says not yet? You believe that that customer is at least getting close to buy. So, what are you doing to sustain that emotional altitude? And when too much time goes by and when the follow- up itself is generic, there's nothing that tweaks that emotional altitude, that keeps it strong, that keeps it in the right direction.
Darryl Praill: All right. So, you talk about, you use the phrase, sustaining that emotional altitude. And that's a really vivid visual element for me to remember and why I'm doing that. Now, what we know though is that, statistically, reps seem to make two or three attempts at reaching out to somebody, or at least trying to continue the dialogue if they've already had an initial one. And often, they give up or they'll do the same channel only, so only phone or only emails as opposed to mixing it up. What do you know, what can you tell us is best practices or best advice when it comes to mixing up, I guess, number of attempts, persistency, as well as channel?
Jeff Shore: Yep. Well, first of all, when you look at the way that you want to communicate with people, it's always best to think about it in, what I would refer to as, a communication hierarchy or communication effectiveness hierarchy. Face- to- face, definitely the most valuable way to be able to communicate. Even now, I can see you on video, Darryl, but there's still something that's lost just a little bit. So, face- to- face, you get that energy. You get that vibe. You get the whole nine yards. This is our close second, I would say, if we're face- to- face by video. Then, what do we do? We look and say voice- to- voice. Those are what Jeb Blount would refer to as synchronous communications. There's a back and forth. There's a give and take. But, then you move into asynchronous communication. We start thinking about a video message or a video text message. And then, we start thinking about texts and emails, and we're moving down the effectiveness of communication as we do this. Somewhere down there near the bottom of the list is email communication. Now email has its place, but here's the problem. It is, without question, the dominant form of follow- up. It is the number one way that salespeople follow up, by email. Well, that's a problem because it also happens to be the least effective for the way that it's used. I say this because about 85% of emails never even get opened. They go straight into a trashcan right from the very beginning when you look at the billions of emails that are sent around the world every day that are pure spam. So, is there a room for email? Yes, there is. There's a strategic use for email. But, if you're relying only on email and if you're thinking that that's going to get you to stand out, I'm telling you, you are fodder for a junk folder somewhere. In all likelihood, they're not going to see it. So, I would look at it and say," How far up that hierarchy can I get? Face- to- face is best. This would be second if I can do it. Voice- to- voice after that. I want to think about the richest form of follow- up and ask," How do I do that?" Now, having said that, I'm going to look at it and I'm going to say," I need to confirm an appointment. I probably don't need to get face- to- face to confirm an appointment." Here's the rule of thumb. Let the message dictate the medium. What's the purpose of the message? If I want to just confirm an appointment, what's the right medium for that? Well, it's a text message, in my opinion. I can send that a quick text message or I can follow it up with a voicemail if you're doing a calendar entry, but let the message decide. The key here is to let the message decide, not your comfort level. There's a reason that email is the most used form of follow- up. It's because it's the most comfortable form of follow- up. And that's the one that rubs me the wrong way.
Darryl Praill: I am smiling ear to ear. I have had this conversation too many times. The phone is huge. Face- to- face, how many people don't turn their video on when you have a Zoom meeting? You just go audio only. You're missing a chance to convey body language. Obviously, face- to- face is... That's why I miss physical events. We'll have events, I can talk to people one- on- one. But, too many people hide behind email. And why, folks? Exactly because of what Jeff just said. It's what's convenient to you, but remember what Jeff also said? It's not about you. It's about how the buyer buys. You're doing this because that's how the buyer buys. So, you want to respond promptly. You want to respond with persistency. You want to let the message and the medium work together to get your objective based on how the buyer buys because you want to sustain that engagement you have with the buyer already. All right. So, that leads to the message. We have to make it personal. We all know that. We all hear it. You say something in your book that made me just giggle. And it was giggle for joy because people just don't get this. You use the phrase, start with what you have in common. And by that, I'm assuming you don't mean," Oh, look, we both went to the same alma mater." What do you mean by that when you say start with what you have in common and what even leads you to bring that up in the first place?
Jeff Shore: Yeah, well, I'm a huge fan of the psychologist Robert Cialdini and his work, and especially his book Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. And in that book, he talks about six key principles of influence. One of those is that sense of friendliness, of commonality. We are more influenced by people with whom we have something in common. So, when you go back to, oh boy, I'm just thinking all the way back to the tragedy of 9/ 11. Man, here south of your border, the United States really just coalesced right there because we were all going through this tragedy at the same time. That's an extreme example. But, what happens here is that when it comes to the idea of being a sales professional, it also means that I need to be able to demonstrate my humanness and people are willing to connect with humanness if they feel like there is that sense of we're in this journey together, so those times that I can step into their life, when I can walk into their shoes. And this is why the principle of empathy is so critical. It's such a valuable tool for sales counselors. It's not just a matter of knowing what you feel, it's feeling what you feel. That includes that commonness with them. But, that's really what it is. It increases our influence authority when we find those things that are going to be in common. Now, as you pointed out appropriately so, Darryl, it's very easy to cross that line, and to look at it and say," Oh, you got a Ottawa Senators shirt on there. I know somebody who's a Senators fan." Who cares? It's got to be something in the human experience that's going to make a lot more sense than that.
Darryl Praill: As I'm looking at this, I can't help, but be reminded, Jeff, that you're a San Jose Sharks fan and you took Karlsson from us. So, I'm just bitter about that. Speaking of commonality, we have that in common. So, what do we know here, folks? We know we're running tight on time. You need to follow Jeff. He's on LinkedIn. All right. It's just linkedin. com/ in/ jeffshore. You need to follow him on Twitter, twitter. com/ shore. You need to go to his website. Guess what it is? Yeah, that's right, jeffshore. com. Not with a G, but with a J, J- E- F- F. So, check out his podcast, The Buyer's Mind. All right. It's on his website, jeffshore. com. So, there you go. You need to buy this book. I'm telling you, I've read the book. You need to buy the book, Follow Up and Close the Sale: Make Easy Follow- Up Your Winning Habit. Invest in yourself. Now, that's your next step. Go read the book. But, beyond that, Jeff's got something that I think you need to know about because this might be where you go next. Beyond everything I just said because what you're going to do now, it's going to take five minutes. But, now I mentioned invest in yourself. Jeff, what can they do beyond the book?
Jeff Shore: Yeah, I put together a masterclass because when you're writing a book, there's a lot of stuff. You're limited by the publisher as to how many words you can put in the book. There's a lot of stuff that didn't fit in the book. We just carved it out and put it into a masterclass. So, if you go to jeffshore. com and click on our distance learning tab, you'll see it right there. And it is an opportunity here to be able to say," How do I dig deep?" Some people learn better by reading a book. And I think you should read the book, of course, but some people are more activity focused. How do I apply that directly? And the masterclass can help you with more of the advanced stuff.
Darryl Praill: So, there you go. How often have you guys heard me say, if you're a regular listener on the show," learning is earning"? So, reading the book, easy, one- time small investment. You're learning. You're going to apply the principles. You're going to AB test it, right? We always talk about AB test it. You heard Jeff talk about CRM, or it could be your sales engagement platform. Either way, test it, AB test it. But, then I've talked as well at length about you spending your money to invest in yourself because you are your own entrepreneur, even when you work for somebody else, because you never know your next gig. So, to do that, consider the masterclass because I can tell you, sitting here as a CRO of VanillaSoft, a sales engagement platform, which is all about the follow- up, which we talked about today, that's literally what we talked about today, that it makes a dramatic difference in your take- home pay because you're going to close a hell of a lot more deals. What I liked about what Jeff was getting into was you're not doing this for yourself, you're doing this because that's what the buyer buys. You're trying to sustain a relationship. You're just using the tools at play. That's why you do it. It's as simple as that. Anyway, we are out of time. Jeff, thank you for your time today. I had a lot of fun. And folks, if you liked this show, well, guess what? We're going to do it again next week. In the meantime, please like us, share us, all the usual stuff. Just basically honk our horn as much as you can. I hope to see you online. You can always find me on Twitter, send me your feedback. Or on LinkedIn, tell me your thoughts, your comments. I want to hear from you. Always open to ideas and guests, send them my way. I'm Darryl Praill. I'm with VanillaSoft and this is INSIDE Inside Sales.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the INSIDE Inside Sales podcast with your host, Darryl Praill. We hope you enjoyed the show. And if you did, we would greatly appreciate you taking a moment to leave us a review on the platform you're listening to the show from today. Also, please feel free to share this program with your friends and colleagues. Thank you. Darryl will be back again next week.