What is a sure-fire way to maintain success as you transition from one company to another? Never, ever burn your bridges!
In this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl welcomes Ashleigh Early, rockstar sales consultant, coach, and podcast host to discuss the tricky topic of navigating the unpleasant waters of being let go or leaving your job. Darryl and Ashleigh will share some valuable tips on ways you can move on without damaging your professional relationships. They will also discuss why keeping a level head is really the best thing you can do, and offer some advice on what to do when confronted with the "you only have 24-hours to sign this" ultimatum.
Darryl Praill: It's another episode of the INSIDE Inside Sales show. Oh my gosh. Folks, I tell you, it's September, but I feel like I'm in the last mile of a big ass, long race. There's a word there for long races, marathon. Marathon, that's the word. I'm in the last mile of a marathon. See, I can't even think. That's how you know that I am frazzled, overwhelmed,. it's nuts. I've had a zillion meetings lately as we're trying to get the crew all ready for the late Q3, and then full on Q4, push to hit our numbers. Numbers are interesting, right? When you're in the sales game, some months you hit them, some months you blow them out of the water. Some months, you'd like a do over on. It happens, name the game. And that's the case for like 90% of the population, so I want you guys to think about that because you always hear of these household brands. Many of them are unicorns, or soon to be unicorns, who have been funded up the wazoo, and because they've spent all their millions upon millions of dollars building brand and awareness, they have an inbound machine where people are just going to them. And the sort of sales reps do very little prospected, and they're just taking inquiries and closing them and they're blowing their numbers out. And then you don't because you don't have that, and you sit back and you think, what's wrong with me that I am not having the same success they are? Well, sometimes it's that. Sometimes you're just not at an industry or category leading brand and you have to fight for every deal you get. And that's a bitch, let's just call a spade a spade here. And you're getting hammered by, have you done your activity? You're not prospecting right, you're not using the right channels. You're closing sucks, you're discounting too much, lots of reasons. And in that journey, in that journey, sometimes management decides that it's not that they're the problem in their lack of brand or lack of awareness, or lack of investment or lack of marketing or lack of training. It's no, no, no. It's not their problem, it's your problem. You, you're the problem. And in the course of that, they decide that it's time for a change, like pro sports. The coach gets the ax. It's time for a change, we need to change the locker room, need to change the voice, we need to things up. And so, and so, got the ax. And sometimes, as much as we hate it, sometimes that's you. I remember years ago, this has happened to me on more than one occasions. In fact, I'm so proud of being fired that it's actually in my official bio. I'm not making this up, it's in my bio. If you read to me, I've said," I've been hired and fired by the best." One example comes to mind where I was the VP of marketing. It wasn't even a sales job, it was a VP of marketing, but the irony was even though I was the VP of marketing, I owned all profit and loss for the company. I didn't own the sales organization, but I owned all profit and loss for the company because I owned product management, product marketing. And in that organization, product management was the driver of P and L because who better to own P and L was the people making the product, so you better make a good product. Otherwise, you're going to be out the door. And we did a good job. I was hired along with the new CEO to flip this company. We want to sell them within three years, we changed our product roadmap. We changed our channel strategy. And within nine months, we were acquired by the number one company in the space for a huge multiple. Life was good. We were all happy, the investors were happy. And the reason they bought us, the company told us, because we knew we were eating their lunch on share and they admitted that, wasn't that we were eating their lunch on share, but it was that they wanted the team who would put the plans together to eat their lunch. So it was just the product and the team. Life is great. Fast forward, 30 days, I got the phone call from the CEO, you're fired. And a couple days later, the rest of the team was fired as well. And that's just life, it happens. Now what was interesting is what happened after, because I was not a happy camper. I was a bitter angry fellow because I had just done wonderful things, I was a good purchase. I was eating their lunch, and this is how you thank me? You are an asshole with the capital A, all right. Sorry for the language. And they put an offer in front of me. I saw, here's your go away, be quiet, hush money. I sought a lawyer out to get my thoughts and opinions. That's all I did, nothing was decided. One, one meeting. And then without any awareness or consultation with me, the lawyer sent a letter to my employer to say," Just to let you know, Mr. Praill has been in consultation with us about your proposed severance package." And boom, they revoked the letter and the, I'm sorry. They revoked the severance package immediately. Revoked. Here's the irony. You actually can't do that in Canada. We'd been acquired by an American company, you can't do that in Canada. It took me four years and a law case in the courts to get settlement. That's right. And I was left bitter with no severance, and a little blemish on my reputation, at least I thought. So that happens all the time. That's more than likely going to happen to you. I don't want to suck the life out of the room, but that's more than likely going to happen to you. So here's the thing. When that happens, when you leave a job, whether it's voluntarily or not voluntarily, how do you do that and optimize it for you, and not burn any bridges? Now, I want to stop here for a second. If anybody from VanillaSoft or AutoClose is listening to this podcast right now, this will never happen to you and you can stop listening now, just stop. Just press pause, walk away. But for everybody else, please continue listening. So I said to myself, who's a really cool cat who understands this? Who's lived this, gone through themselves personally, and who teaches others this very reason? Who's in touch with not just the craft of sales, but the emotions and the vulnerability and the personal aspect of sales? And we all know there is literally one person who owns this persona, and that is the incredible, Ashleigh Early. Ashleigh, welcome to the show, my friend.
Ashleigh Early: Thanks for having me on again. Glad I haven't scared everyone away yet.
Darryl Praill: You sound so excited." Thanks for having me on again. I'm squeezing you in between all my mega power broker clients. Shut up Praill, let's just get this done."
Ashleigh Early: I'm just trying to play it cool. I'm actually super, like my hands are actually a little shaky.
Darryl Praill: Are they?
Ashleigh Early: Yes. This is a loaded topic.
Darryl Praill: Yes it is.
Ashleigh Early: This is something that, I mean, this is on a weird way, like you and I know each other really well because I got laid off twice, four times in two years. And you were around for the last two, basically. And it was the emotions of," This isn't for me. I don't want to do this." The last one technically, or the second, the inaudible one wasn't technically a layoff. It was complicated and turned into me quitting, technically, but it wasn't a quit. It was a quit or get fired. And that was like," No. Okay, great. Get paid my severance and then I'll quit." And this is the thing. It's really loaded and we're walking into the great recession. People, especially sales reps, are getting smarter. They're realizing, hey, I can insist on a healthy work environment. Hey, I can insist on a comp plan that actually sets me up for success and actually pays me what I'm worth. And we're not tolerating these abusive behaviors by employers anymore, whether it's you find out that it's abusive because you get the letter in the mail or you get called into the office, or called into the Zoom and be told it's your last day or you go and find a better job. But with so many people navigating this right now, I'm seeing a lot of people getting brutalized here, sloppy, about these transitions and it's going to hurt you. And so that's where, kind of, I'm really excited to dive into this a little bit because there's simple, little things you can do to set yourself up for success long term. Right before we were getting started, I was reminded of the phrase," The ass you kick today might be the ass you kiss tomorrow." And especially in the sales world, it is incestuous. You have to make sure you don't burn any bridges. Now I say, you have to make sure you don't burn any bridges. There are points you want to burn bridges. I have intentionally burned bridges in my career, but those are points where I know I will never do any business with this person ever again and I do not care what they say. I can count on one hand the number of times I've done that, and I hope to keep it below two hands my whole career, because those are the people who deserved it. Pretty much other than you doing something legitimately unforgivable, I'm going to try really hard to preserve that bridge because I never know when I'm going to need you to give me a referral. I'm going to have someone back channel on whether or not I know how to do my job, but they call the one person who, did I piss them off? Did I burn that bridge? And all of a sudden, I've now shot myself in the foot. So I'm really excited to hopefully help some people stay saying," Navigate this with some class and get through this to the other side where all the better stuff is."
Darryl Praill: Okay. So for those who don't know, this is really relevant at this point in time as we have this conversation. Ashleigh, she's a pretty amazing actual sales cheerleader, coach, consultant. And she helps, I love this positioning statement. You can see it on her LinkedIn page, I'm reading it. But this is why I asked her to have this conversation." I help teams and individuals grow through empathy in science," and we're going to practice a little empathy in science here today. Beyond her coaching skills, she's also the host, or at least one of the hosts, of The Other Side of Sales podcast, which is really important because it truly is the... We talk about sales skills all the time then there's the other side of sales. Whether that be your feelings, your emotions. It could be, are you disadvantaged because of your gender or your ethnicity or whatever? That's all the other side of sales. So she's coming at this with a really wholesome, holistic point of view. So let me ask you this, Ashleigh, is burning bridges a common thing in the sales world, and is that self- inflicted or is the nature of the beast? And then beyond that, let's talk about what we can do to not burn bridges.
Ashleigh Early: Yeah. So interestingly, my husband, who is brilliant and amazing and the best spouse someone could ask for in his career in sales, he's been amazing. He's actually getting his masters in international politics right now, and I spent the weekend hearing him talk about this thing called, I think I'm going to get it wrong again, but systemic violence. And it's this idea that violence can be either direct or it can be inflicted indirectly onto an individual by a system. We hear of this a lot talked, similar topics being talked, about when it comes to racism and stuff like that. There's direct burning of bridges that can happen. When I send an email to you and say," Screw you, screw your company. I hope you get what's coming to you. Bye." Boom, that bridge is burned. I've now passively threatened you, I've told you to go away. There are certain things you can think, you can feel, you can say to your friends, you can vent about. You really can't say to a person in a professional environment, because it violates trust. Even if they've screwed you, you really can't say that stuff. So that's the direct burning of bridges stuff. And that typically is the rep doing it. If a rep is going to make a mistake, it's going to be the rep getting fiery, getting angry, and speaking their mind in a way that is not appropriate in a workplace.
Darryl Praill: They're getting emotional.
Ashleigh Early: Getting overly emotional in the minute, which it's really hard not to do. I get there, I've been there. I have bawled at a company, I have asked for a minute to make sure I don't scream at someone. And there have still been things where said things I wish I hadn't said. Luckily, nothing too serious. Usually it was something, it was usually just like an f- bomb or you've got to be inaudible kidding me with this inaudible. You know, it's stuff like that. It's nothing too personal direct. Then there's the systemic side of it. The systemic side of thing is typically done by the company onto the rep. This is stuff like, I know of a couple, dozen people that have been let go from sales jobs on the 29th of the quarter because if they are employed on the 30th, when all the deals close, the company has to pay the rep commission. There's literally, in most comp plans, there's literally nothing the rep can do about that. It's bad faith and there possibly is, depending on where you live and a bunch of other things, there may be something you can do there, but there is nothing you can do in that moment. You got screwed by the system and by your leadership who chose not to have ethics. That's kind of a systemic thing onto the rep and that's individuals using the system, but that's, whatever. And this is really kind of one of the key things here when it comes to burning bridges and stuff like that. When it comes to an exit, whether it's voluntary or involuntary, nothing has to happen immediately. This is rule number one for an exit is don't feel like everything has to be figured out immediately. If you're giving notice, you can give the company 72 hours to tell you what they want to do. You can take 72 hours and basically just go have a holiday. Nothing has to be figured out immediately. If someone gives you a severance, do not sign anything in the room. Always, always, always, and especially if you're early in your career, this seems like overkill. Always get a lawyer to look it over. Pay a couple hundred bucks. There are resources available to call like the inaudible helpline and get someone else to look at what they're having you sign. Never sign it without talking to somebody else. If they insist you sign it in the room, that's actually illegal in the states. I don't know about Canada and other areas, but don't let anyone press you into stuff like that. Give yourself time to breathe, to process, to figure it out, and then come back. Nothing ever has to be decided in the moment and if you react, and that's the basis of your decision, you're probably much more likely to actually burn that bridge. In terms of overreacting, emotionally or acting impulsively, or just you're not in a good state of mind, because it sucks.
Darryl Praill: And one of the things I'll say here, just for clarification, is the classic, you love it on Reddit or Twitter. I am not a lawyer, nor is Ashleigh. So the advice we're giving you here-
Ashleigh Early: No, no. That's why we're saying you need to go talk to a lawyer.
Darryl Praill: -is based on our experience. Exactly. But it's based on experiences lived and shared, so always, please, consult a lawyer before doing that. But a common case we see is the employer saying, if you say,"I don't want to sign it today, I want to, I need to think about it." They'll say there's a time limit, you've got 24 hours max to sign this, and otherwise the offer's off the table, if that's what you want to do. And as we both know, you actually have more than that. I mean they'll... And the response to that often is, listen, you're going to spend more on lawyer fees rather than just giving me a couple days to think about it. So, do you really want to incur that expense, and all the notoriety that goes with that? Because I and others will just go on Glassdoor and bring down your reputation. There's the power of social. LinkedIn's amazing. We don't want to, I don't want to do that, you don't want to do that. So, let's just be adults here. Give me two or three days to consult a lawyer and see what my options are. I'll come back. I'll be reasonable, you'll be reasonable. There's this conversation. And for most times, and
Ashleigh Early: I would even say, you don't even need to have the conversation. I would say in most cases you can say, just doing something as simple as, I acknowledge your request for responsible within than 24 hours, I do not guarantee I will give you one. Just go complete non- answers. It's really annoying, they hate it. But what it does is it keeps, you don't give anything away. They don't get anything because whatever, and you get time to get out of the room. And you can even just be blunt and be like," I want to make sure I know my rights. I want to do some research. I want to consult with the people I need to consult with. I will get your answers as quick as I can. If that's a problem, we'll deal with it when it happens."
Darryl Praill: Correct, and sorry. And candidly, most 99% of employers would rather do this easily and smoothly. If that means giving you a couple more days, they will do that. And also, most employers, by the way, know if you're going to con consult a lawyer. It's often just faster to give you a little bit of extra money and again, make you go away because that way they're not spending the money on lawyers and you're going away and we have resolution. Not saying you should use that for negotiation, just saying most people, most employers, look at this with an economic lens. So, you talked about that as basically knowing your rights. Is that a fair way of putting it, Ashleigh?
Ashleigh Early: Yeah. crosstalk
Darryl Praill: Go ahead.
Ashleigh Early: The big thing for me with know your rights is if you know what the employer can and can't do, if you know what you can and can't do, basically it allows you to one, stay in control in the sense of you know what you're owed and what you're not. Which can keep you, even if somebody violates that, like if the employer says that they're going to confiscate your sick leave or something. You don't need to get all pissed about it in the moment because you know that's illegal, you know they can't do it and you can be like," Hmm, I disagree with that. We can talk about it later." Stays reserved, stay in control, go deal with it and make sure you've got all the support and whatever you need. Understanding this stuff makes this a lot less stressful, and doing the research when you're not in the thick of it makes it a lot easier as well. The other side of it, too, is also makes sure you don't ask for something kind of unreasonable. I have definitely had people who ask for stuff that was kind of insane.
Darryl Praill: I've been here a year. I want six months severance. That's not going to happen.
Ashleigh Early: Honestly, that's actually exactly what someone asked for. I had someone who was on the job for a month. Repeatedly no- showed to work and then when we let them go for not showing up to work with no notice, they said," Oh, you didn't, this was good faith. You guys owe me at least six months while I find a new job." And it was like-
Darryl Praill: No.
Ashleigh Early: Let me check, no. The answer is no. So, it's making sure you understand what you're getting and what makes sense for your market, for your role, for all these other things. I'll be brutal honest, I have never gotten more than, I think, a month of salary as severance. And I tell people that and they're like," Are you kidding me? That's all you..." I'm like," Yep. That's really, legitimately, all I've ever gotten." That was the best, usually it's two weeks. Now that's in my experience in my role, and I think that's pathetic, but understanding these things, kind of going from there. And one of the reasons it's important to know these in advance is, like I said, so in the moment, it's not the end of the world. And so, especially if you're exiting, you can negotiate your exit in a proper way. So this is more important when you're leaving a company than when you're being laid off. Because when you're leaving a company, your end date is strongly tied to what commission you're going to get. And the moment you give notice, in the states, at least, there's a good chance the company can just say," Fine. Well, today's your last day, even though you wanted to be here through the end of the month so you can get all your end of quarter spiffy- spiffy bonuses." Make sure you read your comp plan. Make sure you know exactly how you're going to be paid, when you're paid, why you're paid, and all that nitty- gritty details so that when you do give notice, you can basically give them a plan and say," This is what I'm owed, this is how I expect it." And you just give it to them. And then once you've given it to them in writing, they kind of have to follow it because you've given it to them in writing. And then if they terminate sooner or they do something crazy and try to jerk you around, you struck the first blow by putting it in writing in advance. So, that's just knowing your comp plan, knowing your rights, then that allows you to stay in control even when someone tries to pull you off track.
Darryl Praill: So there's a couple things here. So, you'll open up by saying know your rights. We indirectly talked about saying that you should also know the company's rights because they actually have rights too. So if you're going to be stupid and make any requests to them, then you've just lost any respect, because they're negotiating from position of power often. They know that, so they're more likely to work with you if you're reasonable, as opposed to if you're unreasonable. So know your rights, know their rights. And I love your point here, the third point about know your comp plan. And one of the reasons, I mean, clearly you're doing that for your own benefit, exactly to Ashleigh's point. Maybe my last day of the month, my last day of the job is going to be on the last day of the month or the quarter so I get all of my commissions, as an example. But they might have language in there, my commissions will only be paid out if you're still here. So maybe you did a sale on the last day of the month, but you have to be there two weeks later before you can claim that commission for whatever payment processing delays are. Know your comp plan. If they give you grief on that, you can point back to the comp plan because the comp plan is essentially a legal document. It's a binding agreement between employer and the employee.
Ashleigh Early: It is a legal document.
Darryl Praill: Right. So at the end of the day, they crafted that document and put it in front of you, so they're less likely to be resentful or bitter about what you did. It's fair game. When they made it, they made it for themselves, probably with a little bias towards themselves, and now you're using it for you. That's okay, that's what the document's there for. Now, one of the things I'm going to talk to you about, you're a big person around karma. What does karma have to do with this whole process?
Ashleigh Early: I have the best example of this, actually. I've talked about this a few times. I, years ago, accepted a position with a company. I was super excited about it, ready to get going. I took a week to transition, this was after one of the layoffs. I was super excited, I was prepping for the role and literally like four days, I think, before I was supposed to start the new role, I was supposed to start the new role on Monday. So on Thursday, the previous week, my dream job that I had interviewed for a month prior and they had not moved on me, called me and said," Can you talk to the CEO today? We would like to make you an offer." I said," Yes," because, of course I'm going to say yes to that call. I spoke to the CEO, everything went well. They made me an offer that matched everything I wanted. It literally was an offer that I couldn't refuse, so I accepted it. That meant I had to go decline the previous offer that had been waiting for me for two weeks. And I had to do it with, literally, I think I did it the Sunday before I was supposed to start on Monday, because they signed the offer Saturday night. And I told them I had this other offer that I had signed, I was supposed to start on Monday. So if they wanted me, we had to do this now. And they did it. And that meant I had to call and say," Hey, I'm really sorry this happened this way. I wasn't expecting it. You know I interviewed at this company before, because I was wrapping up my process with them when I started with you guys. It came back up, this happened, I'm not going to start on Monday. I wish you the best of luck. I know this is really upsetting." That's basically what the conversation was. The guy, all things considered, took it well. I could tell he was pissed. He basically hung up on me because he was really upset. They'd been looking for a long time for me to start and I had basically burned them at the last possible second. I also made the mistake of not telling the recruiter that got me in there that I had done this, so I got an angry call from the recruiter four days later when he's like," I sent them an invoice on your first day, you could have warned me." I was like," Ah, I didn't know that's how that worked." This is the perfect example of karma. I did everything I could in that process. I was very transparent, I told everyone what I was doing. I said you guys didn't do anything wrong, this is just literally the job I have wanted. And it's a little bit better than yours for these specific reasons that are not have nothing to do with you guys, it's basically down to commute and market opportunity. Sorry. It's a unicorn versus the non- unicorn. Sorry. It's just going to grow bigger." And the specific hiring manager there and I have not spoken since, it's been a few years. I have been in touch with pretty much, I think now, literally everyone else who was involved in that hiring process and they have sent me business. That is why you don't burn bridges. You can say no and not burn a bridge. You can exit and piss some people off but if you do it in a way that is transparent, is clear, companies are going to do what's right for them. You've got to do what's right for you. And as long as you're doing that ethically, you can get away with just about anything, as long as you're good at your job. I'm assuming if you're listening to this, you're good at your job because there's so much knowledge dropped here every week. There's no excuse. That's the perfect example. I literally got a referral last week from the VP of sales from that company and said," Hey, you're in this space. I have a client who needs your help." Even though I completely screwed his team over.
Darryl Praill: I had my own agency for 10 years, marketing agency, and clients are a little bit like jobs. Where they hire you, they engage you, and then after a period of time, they fire you or they just end the engagement. And that's normal, and that's okay. And sometimes, they end the engagement abruptly. Maybe it's a cash flow issue, or they end the engagement without paying you. Because, again, that's how they save a few dollars and that's their MO and now you know, and there you go. But when you end each of those with integrity, I have had those same clients, over and over and over again, refer me more business. The same thing with employers. So, integrity goes a long way, but let's bring it back full circle. Because Ashleigh, Ashleigh, my friend, we all know that rep. They're usually really good, they're pretty smart. They're pretty savvy, or at least they have a high opinion of self, and they know better. And sometimes, they think they can outsmart the system. Any examples there, of what you've seen done and how that has worked for or against them?
Ashleigh Early: Yes. So, this is where I come back to kind of know your rights, know your comp plan, and try not to take on the system all at once. The world isn't fair, it's just not. And that sucks, but it's basically, this is kind of one of the situations where I tell people, pick your shop. You're really only going to get one, you don't want to take it on. You don't want to take it on something stupid. If you're going to take it, take it for something that's legitimately going to make a big deal financially, or it's going to make a big deal for your reputation. An example of which would be, if someone's, and this is typically around layoffs, is where I see things get really nasty. If somebody has a high opinion of self and they just," I know better" and whatever, great. Go find a different job next, next. Where I see those sort of interactions go wrong is when someone decides to be a poison pill on the way out.
Darryl Praill: Oh my gosh, yeah.
Ashleigh Early: Where they decide to just start trash talking everything that they're doing to anyone who listens on the team, for the final week or two. And that's a great example of basically, short of you doing something, again, pretty unethical. I'll give pretty much anyone a reference, I have no problem with that. But you come in and the moment you've decided you're leaving, you start to all of a sudden spew nothing but hate and derision and trying to sew discord among the team, that's toxic. That shows a level of maturity that I don't want on my team, and I probably am not going to interact with you again. I'm not going to tell you that, I'm just not going to talk to you. And that's really the thing to understand is if you piss someone off in sales if you think you know better. The number one way they will stick it to you will not be coming at you. It'll be when someone calls them and says," Hey, Ashleigh, what do you think of Darryl?" And I say," No comment," because that means I'm hiding something.
Darryl Praill: So I wanted to talk about that. I wanted to talk about that, specifically. So, here's something you need to understand, folks. And if you're young, and I sound like an old guy saying that, if you're young. If you've been working five years or less, you won't fully appreciate this. Our industry, as big as it is, is infinitesimally small and connected. And what you don't understand is it's incredibly small and connected., So real world examples where I've had reps not work out with us. Maybe it's them, maybe it's me, it doesn't matter. Parting of ways. And then exactly, exactly to Ashleigh's point, I get that back room call." What do you think of George?" And what I will say, if you didn't burn your bridge, is I will say," George is a great person. George is really good at A and B. My advice to you if you're going to do something with George, is you really, really need to hold George's hand at C. If you don't hold him at C, he won't be successful. But if you're confident, you can hold him at C, good person. Good luck." Now, the reason George exited our organization was because George sucked at C. So, anybody who's savvy will hear exactly what I'm saying, and they'll understand they're a good person and all that wonderful stuff. And then it's up to them, make or break a decision on whether they hire them or not. But to Ashleigh'a point, I don't really say no decision, no comment, because that's... Many people do. I'll say something like," You know what? I'm not the right person talking to you about George because it just didn't work out for us here. So, I'd prefer not to," but it's the same thing in the end. I'm still saying no comment. And the reason I'm saying no comment is because I'm protecting myself legally for a liability is if George comes after me and says," You're the reason I didn't get the job."
Ashleigh Early: This is stuff managers get trained on and have to figure out. As reps, what Darryl's talking about, that's a really important peak behind the curtain, because a smart because a smart manager will never say something directly negative because it opens yourself up to liability and stuff like that, on a management side. But I'll give you an example. I had to fire someone because they had a bad day, they made a stupid decision. They had a bad day, they made a stupid decision. It was totally human. It was absolutely the right call, I fired him the same day. It's the only time I've ever had to do that. And I told him in the firing conversation, I said," You will bounce back from this. I'm sorry you made that decision, this is the natural consequence. You will bounce back." Because he was distraught, understandably. Three days later, I got a reference check. And it's there was a level of awareness and I was like,"Oh, I said that because I do believe it in this rep," and he's doing great. He's fine. He's a killer sales rep, but I can't say anything on that call. And to send that person to me hurt him again, and I opened myself up to it because I said you will bounce back. In hindsight., I shouldn't have said that because that sent the message to him that I was on his side that I would help him. I legally couldn't. But at the same time, his unawareness of how this process worked, set him up so he ended up, basically, having to scramble to get another reference, and then now explain why his last boss couldn't give a reference. Just think through these things a little bit, and this is where I think it's also really important. And this is a huge issue when you look at DEI and belonging. Mentorship matters and having a mentor who is outside the company. You've got to have someone outside your company who is in leadership, or who has done these jobs, who can call and literally just say," Sanity check. This just happened. What do I do?" That has saved me from so many stupid things over the years?
Darryl Praill: Oh my gosh, okay.
Ashleigh Early: Leaving and not, get this stuff there.
Darryl Praill: We're going to end it right there because that is epic advice. Have that trusted third party you can vent to and bounce frustration and circumstances off of so they can give you an impartial, non- invested assessment of what you should do, is gold. I would say... I was actually going to come back to that with a very similar angle, that's why I'm blown away that you went that there, Ashleigh, just so we're in tune. I was going to say, be self aware. If you're getting fired, chances are it's not a hundred percent that your employer is an ass. Maybe they are, but they got to fire somebody. So why you? So you've got to be a little bit self aware. Sometimes we are the authors of our own demise. But when that happens, dust yourself off, pick yourself up and learn from it, exactly as you said. All right, all that is about how not to burn bridges when you leave a job. Whether you leave it voluntarily or you're asked to leave. It will happen to you, I guarantee it. Or you will be the one exiting an employee. Either way, you're going to be in one side of that equation. How you handle it is a matter of your own integrity and just be informed. Be smart, be wise. Again, going back to Ashleigh's points. Know your rights. Don't be afraid to assert your rights, but also be aware of the company's rights. Know your comp plan, it's a binding contract between you two. Don't try to outsmart the system. Remember, karma is real. And finally, just always be aware that the ass you kick today is the ass you're going to possibly kiss tomorrow. With that, Ashleigh, what's the best way for my crew here to reach out to you and learn more about you? What you do, where you can be found, what content they can consume, all that great stuff.
Ashleigh Early: Yeah. So, best way to get in touch with me is you can go to Ashleighearly. com. I'm on all the Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, all that stuff. I also have a special call up. Please, please, please do go to salescensus. com. We are doing our second annual sales census with the Other Side of Sales. This is an incredible opportunity. VanillaSoft is one of our sponsors, to get a sense of what it is really like to be a sales rep today. What the face of being in sales looks like, as well as how to better improve the culture so that everyone in sales can truly thrive. So go to salescensus. com, all the details are there.
Darryl Praill: Total sidebar, but a year and a bit ago, we asked Ashleigh to lead a round of conversations our behalf, on Vanilla's behalf. If you go to the VanillaSoft YouTube channel, Ashleigh interviews some of these amazing, amazingly accomplished senior female leaders in the sales discipline in regular companies. And she has some, I call them Oprah- esque. Barbara Walters, if you're on a of a certain era, Diane Sawyer. You go, it's all there. Conversations with these women, and they are worth your time. You can learn so much. So that's Ashleigh Early, I'm Darryl Praill. And my folks, we're done. In the books. In the can, as they used to say, is another episode of the INSIDE Inside Sales show. We'll talk to you soon. Bye bye.