Earning your stripes in sales is a tough process. It's not uncommon to feel out of place during your first year as a sales rep.
In this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl is joined by our own top salesperson – VanillaSoft's rockstar sales rep in charge of Higher Ed, Rachel Spencer, to talk about how new sales reps can pave their way to success. Creating a strong unique selling proposition is one of the first steps. They discuss the importance of having contextual knowledge of the product, shared the tips for hooking your prospects over the phone using storytelling, and touched on why it's essential to know your prospects' pain points from their unique POV.
Subscribe now and learn the tricks of the trade from those who were once in your shoes.
Darryl: Good afternoon folks. How are you doing? Now, I said good afternoon, that's presumptuous of me, is it not? Because you could be listening to this in the morning or in the evening or in some completely different time block that I'm not aware with. No judgment at all. So how are you doing? It's just, it's good to be here with you again. I've missed talking to you. I've had some amazing guests on lately, have I not? I mean, just between you and I if you're a regular listener, holy smokes, I'll be honest with you, there are times I sit back and I'm like, " Who am I to earn time with some of these amazing people who share their knowledge with me?" And I start to feel unworthy. And what's really cool about that is that you start to remember that we're all in this race to the finish line together, right? And therefore, they're just wanting to share with you. So I love that about the tribe. One of the comments I get a lot, a lot, and I'll be honest I don't know how to handle it so I just give the polite Canadian answer of thank you, which is I have a lot of people come up to me and they'll say, " Darryl, I've been following your content for a long time. I really love your content. This show or that speaker or when you talked about this on that podcast, webinar, video, event, whatever, really impacted me, thank you." And I don't know how to react to that because I don't view that as anything more than just me sharing knowledge with you just like so many others have shared knowledge with me. But what it does do is it causes me to remember, if you will, a younger Darryl, a younger Darryl, when Darryl knew a whole hell of a lot less. And not only did I know a whole hell of a lot less from a skills point of view, how does sales work, how does marketing work? How does a company actually operate? What are the internal politics of a company? How do you work within those politics? How do you lobby to get an initiative you want, you fervently believe is critical to the success of the organization or your own success on the table and actioned? How do you manage people who have seemingly massive amounts of influence, yet in your opinion they're not necessarily any smarter or more capable than you are? How do I make sure I get a good employer review? How do I make sure I get a wage increase? How will I be measured? Where do these metrics come from? The list goes on. There's so much that they never, ever teach you in school, college, university. They teach you this is how accounting works and this is what happened in history and all these wonderful skills, but it's the soft skills, it's really the soft skills, the people skills that are so poorly conveyed. And while I've been blessed to have a lot of guests on who talk about those tangible skills, how to open, how to close, how to do discovery. Recently we had Michael Pedone on, that was a two- parter, that became like a masterclass. Literally, I don't know if you know the story in this one, but in the middle of that podcast, he was only supposed to be there for one podcast, one episode, one classic you know, the usual give or take half hour podcast. The energy, the knowledge sharing it just went off the charts. And Michael, and it's the reason I have Michael on the show periodically, he just started going off into masterclass and I watched the clock ticking because as you might imagine we try to keep it to half an hour and I'm watching him at 25 minutes and he was nowhere near even... you could tell he was nowhere close to being done. And then he was 30, and then he was 35, and he's 40, and I'm thinking, " What do I do?" Because I don't want to let him go, I'm not going to stop this cat because the knowledge is incredible. And my producer messages me and says, " Let's make this a two- parter." And I'm like, " Yes," because now I had permission to go the full hour. And so, in real time we turned a single episode into a two part episode because it was knowledge sharing. That's cool stuff. But you know what Michael is really not able to convey or Kendra Lee is not able to convey or maybe Amy Franko is not able to convey, and these are just some of the recent guests I'm citing. What they're not able to convey because of their tenure and their experience is what it's like to be 20, 25, 28, 29, maybe 30 when you're still trying to figure stuff out and you're still trying to adapt from leaving mom and dad, all right, to going out on your own, to try to hold down a job and pay your bills, to try to actually have some tenure under your job. To actually then starting to excel at your job because you've started to figure stuff out, to actually going to best in class. And there is a journey there that they are just too far gone to relate to, but candidly this is where all of you are at. So it's important for me to share not just what the experts say, but what people just like you in your situation have learned. They've learned it last week, last month, last quarter, last year and they've applied it. So I thought to myself, " Who do I know that fits that mold, that is still really," I don't know how to say this, I've got to be very politically correct when I say this, relatively young and in their career, yet has made a massive progression, has had peaks and valleys, has had ups and downs, has fought with their boss and learned how to attack and how to retreat. And then, has had successes follow them throughout the journey and would be willing to come in here and share with you their lessons learned, their story so you could relate to them as opposed to me. And of course, as you might imagine you know best what you live with every single day. And I live with the amazing Rachel Spencer. And Rachel is literally our top sales rep here at VanillaSoft. She has come into her own. She specializes in the higher education vertical, it's part of our overall givings vertical where you could have different... You maybe have hospitals or charities or higher education where you're trying to raise money through going back to their alumni and their alumnus to find other investments on the campuses. So, that is a big business on its own. And even though what she's going to talk about today relates to that, she may not use words like sales or prospect because for them she's not necessarily selling, she's fundraising. But all the core skills and lessons learnt and tips and tricks and tactics and challenges are the same. So without that I've talked way too much. Rachel, welcome to the show.
Rachel Spencer: Hey, Darryl. Thanks for having me. Obviously as you're my boss I didn't have a lot of stakes in whether I chose to partake today, but I am delighted to be here and privileged to join the ranks of the greats that have been on this podcast.
Darryl: That's funny. I love it. So we're just going to have a loose conversation. I promise that this may or may not... obviously this won't affect your reviews, so we're good. Don't worry with that one. If you want to throw anybody else on your team, you know Fiona, Lucy, Danielle, the whole crew under the bus, now is your chance to do it publicly, so feel free to do that. So let me set the stage. So just give us quick and dirty what's your story? I'm assuming you went to school, college, university, and then what's happened since then, what was your journey be? And you have 30 seconds to do it, go. I'm just kidding.
Rachel Spencer: So I did a law degree at Queen Mary University here in London, and during my time there I took a job in the university call center where I was tasked with reaching out to alumni and asking them to make charitable gifts towards the university. And happy to say I was the top fundraiser for three consecutive years. And then there was a really big joke amongst my family when I left university with this great law degree that I took a job in a call center, which the parents didn't love but they trusted the journey. Or they do at least now in hindsight. So I then took a job at a place called Listen who did a lot of outsource telefundraising for heaps of different charities around the UK. From there I moved onto King's College London where I managed the university call center. I managed about 40 students who were, again, reaching out to alumni by phone primarily and asking them to make gifts and donations towards the university. And while I was there, or indeed when I joined, my boss told me, " Hey, we've just made the decision to buy and implement this tool called VanillaSoft. That's on you, make it happen." So the first three months of the job I was really implimenting the VanillaSoft solution and then I used it of course for a couple of years to manage the team there. And at some point I was taken out for a client dinner by our CEO, Mr. Hood, and he mentioned that they were looking for someone to join the team. And funnily enough that person fit my description and here I am today. So, that's the pre VanillaSoft journey at least.
Darryl: Now, did you not have some time spent at an actual call center as well?
Rachel Spencer: So that was Listen. Listen was between university-
Darryl: That's Listen. Okay. There we go.
Rachel Spencer: Yeah. So between university and King's I worked at this organization called Listen and we were making calls for 50, 60 different charities. You never knew which day you'd come in which charity you'd be calling for. But I did that for six months post uni whilst I worked out what was going to be next, applying for jobs at different law firms and then ultimately deciding no, fundraising was for me. So I took the job at King's and the rest was history.
Darryl: So I've got to ask, what was that like? Because you were working in a university environment where clearly you were very recently in the university so you had the whole university vibe going on, it's very familiar, and then you went to Listen. What was that culture shift like? Was it a culture shift, was it dramatically different, or not?
Rachel Spencer: Well, I had the experience of working as a student fundraiser in the university call center and I loved it, I really enjoyed the challenge of cold calling people basically, and making what in fundraising is called the case for support, which is not dissimilar I guess to a sort of pitch and bringing people around to the idea of lending their generosity to good causes. But mostly I just enjoyed the conversational aspect and relationship building and rapport building, as well as particularly in that job having the opportunity to help raise money for a lot of really good causes. And happily I was pretty good at it, so that worked too.
Darryl: Now, one of the things I want the audience to understand, so let me relate if you will a little bit typical sales, B to B sales to fundraising just so you understand we're the same pitch. So Rachel, she had, for lack of a better... she had a lead, she had a qualified lead, in other words they were alumni, all right? So we knew they fit the ideal customer profile because they were alumni. So we knew that there was some qualification there, but that's it. So when she makes the call she's got the exact same challenge that you have in B to B sales which is you've got that classic five, seven, 12 seconds to hook them before they actually hang up on you or tell you to bugger off or whatever it is you want to say. And then, she's got to go through the exact same process of overcoming objections, negotiating. Maybe she's not negotiating price, maybe she's negotiating their donation number right, but hey, I'm fine donating 10 bucks but maybe she wants them to donate 10, 000 bucks, right? So there's a big, big difference and that's all sales skills. So let me ask you that, so Mr. Hood came to you and said, " We want you to come to VanillaSoft." That's flattering, that's exciting, so basically you were recruited, right? And David can be persuasive for those who don't know him, he's just such a nice guy. Don't let him fool you, he's a shark.
Rachel Spencer: Yeah.
Darryl: So what was it like when you first started with VanillaSoft, because you'd been on the university scene, but now you're working for a private company?
Rachel Spencer: Yeah. I mean, it was pretty intimidating in a way because obviously I was moving into a sales role and I had never sold anything in my life. I had a strong feeling that a lot of the skills that I'd been working on and building and accruing in fundraising were pretty directly transferrable into a sales role. And I think that is absolutely the case, I still adhere to a lot of the things that I was trained to do in that first job at Listen in particular, smiling with your voice when you pick up the phone and using your personality and using your tone of voice. A lot of things that are quite unique to telephone based interactions. And I think being able to build rapport over the phone is a pretty unique skillset in itself. But it was intimidating and I, to be honest, I nearly flunked the interview. Coming from the charity space I was answering my interview questions in a charity fundraising tone and persona. And I almost didn't get the job because I was being asked questions about did I consider myself to be financially motivated and I was like, " No, no, no. It's all about the job satisfaction, it's all about belief in what I do." And they were like, " Well, you're moving into sales so we kind of want you to be financially motivated." And I was like, " Oh. Well in that case, yeah, I'm financially motivated, definitely." So it was intimidating, but as you say, it was flattering that someone saw my potential. And what I did have at that stage, if nothing else, was a very deep understanding of the product. And I think if anything that was perhaps an even bigger advantage to me in taking on the role than arguably a foundation in sales, at least in that stage in my career.
Darryl: I agree with that. And that's actually one of the comments that I tell a lot of young sales professionals is you can't not know the product or service that you're selling because you're the voice, you're the conviction, you're the enthusiasm, you're the infectious energy. And if you don't believe in it, I as a buyer sniff that out really fast. So let me ask you this, have you worked alongside or had conversations with people about that, that you really do need to know the product and how it works? Or do you think people can get by just winging it based on what's on that script in front of them and what they see on the collaterale that they read or share?
Rachel Spencer: I think product knowledge is essential, and if you can convey the value that a particular product offered you specifically it allows you to position yourself as the buyer. You know, I was you, I was in your position, I know your pain and your challenges and this is why I chose to implement this particular solution and this is the benefits that I saw as a result. So it was really helpful in that respect. That being said, I think contextual knowledge of the product is really important. So in my first year at VanillaSoft I was tasked with selling VanillaSoft into sales teams. So I was calling and pitching people like you, VPs of sales, directors of sales, sales managers, and I had never sold anything in my life. So I felt really out of my depth in that first year, and indeed I basically didn't sell anything in that first year because I think I lacked that real understanding of the people that I was selling to. And it was only that in my second year at VanillaSoft where I made the case to David and Scott once upon a time, and I think maybe this was around the time where you'd just joined the company because it was a similar journey in terms of timing. But made the case that I really wanted to have a go a breaking into the higher ed market. At that time I had worked at one of the very few universities that were using VanillaSoft, and I was absolutely convinced that this was a market that we would play extremely well in. And again, I had the experience and the background and the contextual understanding to really be able to position VanillaSoft in that space. And that was when my sales career began.
Darryl: Yeah. That's when you actually started having some success.
Rachel Spencer: That's when I actually started making sales. Yeah.
Darryl: Right. Yes. You started being financially worthwhile. I hear you. And so again folks, we keep on hammering episode after episode, do you know your ideal customer profile, do you truly know it? One of the things that you heard Rachel talk about, I'll use a different term, she was able to demonstrate empathy because she would talk about, " Well, when I was in your shoes, I understand you're probably struggling with this because I struggled with this, right? You may have these challenges, you may have these goals, these aspirations, these requirements that you have to deliver." And in that conversation nowhere is she talking about features or functions, she's talking about the life they're living, all right. And it's one thing to read an ICP and understand that person, and you really do just internalize that, but if you're... I've said this before and I'll tell you again, pick up the phone and call some past customers, your existing customers you have, whether you sold them or not, and just say, " Can I pick your brain? I just want to understand what was the challenge you were facing and what did you look at and why did you pick us? And how have we changed your life?" And yada yada. That's how you get to know the customers. And I know you're like a rockstar at this, so let me connect the dots to where I'm going. Once you do that and once you've been selling for a little bit and once you call into the base, what you learn are some amazing anecdotes and stories. And Rachel, you're the queen at storytelling and sharing, really earning their trust and faith that you have their back, that you will not mislead them. And I know you do it through storytelling.
Rachel Spencer: Mm- hmm(affirmative). Yeah. So a big part of my job today at least is doing demos of our software. And I would say probably 25% of my demo, maybe more, is storytelling. So hey, here's a feature, when I used that feature it allowed me to do X, Y and Z. I was really passionate about this, that and the other, and this gave me space to do A, B and C. And it really allows you to paint a picture and again, continue positioning yourself as a peer, like I have been you, this tool genuinely helped me, and that's why I know that it could also help you because we are one, if you will, we are peers in that way. And I think being able to established that connection and storytelling is huge. And that was again, something that I learnt back in fundraising days that the human brain is literally programmed to listen to stories in a way that we are not programmed to digest statistics and numbers, your brain just starts to tune out at a certain point. Whereas, when you're telling a story you get captivated, you get pulled in and you can see it, you can imagine it. So yeah, storytelling is huge. And again, just being able to be relatable to the people that you are trying to sell to or add value to.
Darryl: You made a really interesting comment just there. You used the word we are peers as part of your long answer, and very informative answer. But I like that. We've talked at length here on the show about mindset. Mindset could be I expect rejection, I welcome rejection, that's one form or mindset. Another form or mindset is I am a peer, I am a colleague. I may not have the tenure of somebody else, but I have the same conviction and goals and aspirations and objectives, which is to make you successful, and damn it, I can help you. Let's talk. And that comes across. Your credibility isn't just your storytelling but you said we're peers, that's a mindset for you. How has that worked out for you? Were you always that way or was it something you learned to embrace because all of a sudden that worked for you? How did that come to be?
Rachel Spencer: I think a bit of both. And I'm not sure it directly answers the question, but another thing that I think has really helped me is a genuine conviction and confidence in the product and being absolutely sure by the time I'm on a demo that this can help you. And I think that is absolutely essential. It was the same in fundraising, when I was training my students I was saying, " You have to do everything in your power to get to a place where you believe in the project that you're raising money for. Because otherwise how are you going to convince somebody else to get on that wavelength if you're not there yourself?" So that again I think is where the peer mentality comes in is once again, I've been you, I've been there, I genuinely believe that this is going to help you and this is why. I think also being a peer allows you to ask better questions, and that's definitely been a big part of my journey as becoming better at selling, if you will, is getting much better at asking questions. And certainly at this stage any discovery call that I do, it's 90% questions, there's really no pitching happening at all. Versus in my first year when again, I wasn't selling anything at all, I would just pitch to anyone that would listen. I was reeking of desperation in a way that just repels sales, I think. So yeah, having that confidence and conviction and again, the understanding of the market allows you to relate and I think allows you to have much better conversations, which then allows you to position your product.
Darryl: So let's talk about that, that's a good segue. Because I wanted to ask you this, so you've been with VanillaSoft for between four and five years, I won't go into specifics but I know that's a ball park roughly what it is. So you're just at that right point in your tenure, and for example recruiters, if you're a recruiter do not call Rachel, I will kick you down and I will hurt you. But you're at that four to five years' experience selling, you are like in demand right now because you've just got enough skills but you're still hungry, and you probably are about to or have already just bought your first house. This is the classic stereotype, right? You may be about to embark upon a long- term relationship so maybe there's going to be a marriage there, I'm not saying this for Rachel, I'm saying this is the stereotype, and so there's lots of financial expenditures. So this is when we get sales reps we're like, it's back to David's point, are you money motivated? Well, I got a lot of bills so yeah, I'm money motivated. So you're at the five years and you're at that point in life when all of a sudden you have more expenses, this is your primo sales rep target now with that said because you've had enough experience. You said, " I used to just do pitching and it made me cringe, and now I approach it differently." What were some of the bad habits or bad tendencies you did then that you look back upon now and you go, " Ugh"? Or a different way you can answer the question, what skills have you learned to develop that you didn't have then that have paid huge dividends?
Rachel Spencer: One thing I'll just mention on the tenure side of things is I think that contextual experience is huge. And I know we did a study with the Telfer School in Ottawa a while ago that literally it was a direct correlation between tenure and time in a role and your success as a sales person. So I think tenure is huge. A big part of what that has given me at least, and also general sales experience is confidence. I think the more confident you can be in your knowledge of the product and the sector that you're selling into, but also just in yourself, the more you can relax and just have fun with the calls that you're having and the people that you're speaking to and really allow your personality to come through. So going back to your question, I think in my first year I was terrified. Every time someone would pick up the phone I would be terrified. I was so anxious to do a great job and ask the right questions, and I had my discovery questions there and God damn it, I was going to ask every single one of them. And there was that lingering aroma of desperation in the background tinged with anxiety and fear. So it was just a horrible thing, but I think you've just got to build that experience and confidence, and it takes time, particularly that was my first ever experience of trying to sell something. So for me, a lot of it I think has just been building that confidence and that knowledge and experience which just allows me to then add more value to the people that I'm speaking to, but most importantly have fun. And I think I really believe that, this is going to sound so cliché and I was thinking about this earlier, but the U in USP is you, you've got to let your personality shine through. And I think the old adage that people buy from people is true in many cases, as long as you're selling something that's worthwhile at least.
Darryl: So if you're young and don't know what USP stands for, because example, my first job somebody left me a note on my seat and they put FYI on it, and I'm like, " What is FYI? Have they got inaudible? It's some kind of industry code?" And they looked at me and they were just rude, they were like, " What do you mean? You know what it means." No, I have no idea what it means. It's for your information. I'm like, " Oh, okay." Classic case of not knowing the business lingo because I'm new to business. USP, unique selling proposition. And you're right, you are the unique selling proposition. And you said it early on with your tone and your inflection and your energy and your smile in your voice which is huge. Okay. So here's a question I'm going to challenge you on, one or two or three skills that were the hardest for you to develop? And, so from then to now, and, and this could be the same skill or this could be another one, the biggest skill you were asked to develop or technique to apply or tactic to use or methodology to follow that you pushed back on the most that in hindsight you're like, " Yeah, that was actually good advice. I didn't think it was at the time, but looking back on it, why was I giving them such a hard time?" So there you go, go for it.
Rachel Spencer: That's a lot, Darryl. That's a big multi part question.
Darryl: I know. Yes. It's a two-parter.
Rachel Spencer: I think you've been called out on this before as well.
Darryl: Two or three skills that were hard to develop and one that you disagreed with that turned out to be right?
Rachel Spencer: Okay. Skills. I think question based selling is huge. That definitely was the first journey for me. It's not about you shoving your product down someone's throat. As far as possible just learn as much as you possibly can about that person, and then the very last thing you do is use all of that to then position your product effectively. One thing that I'm still working on in the context of that question based selling, but I'm going to count this as a separate thing nonetheless is when you're at the beginning of a discovery call and you ask a first few questions and it's all riding up and you're like, " Oh my God, you're the perfect prospect. This is it. This is it"
Darryl: I love you already.
Rachel Spencer: Yes. This is happening. We're going to do this. And then they'll say something like, " Oh, we're specifically looking for X, Y and Z." And you're like, " That's us. We do that." And it can be so hard even now to resist being like, " We do all of those things and more," and suddenly start pitching as opposed to being like, " Great. Mental note, boxes being ticked. Carry on with the questions." Another thing that I'm still really working on is, and again it's kind of related, really listening to the person on the call and being fully present. I'm always furiously typing down notes as I'm having my discovery calls. And then sometimes you're missing things or they've said one thing and you're so hung up on waiting for them to finish speaking so you can go back to it that you're actually missing some other really important information that they're sharing with you. And again, I think it's important to have a plan for the calls that you're having, and I used to have that list of discovery questions that I was going to ask. But also staying present and staying with the prospect and being open to the conversation going in a different direction, but then also keeping it focused. So a lot of stuff on the discovery call I think it where I'm still investing a lot of time in trying to do a better job of those. The one advice that I rejected, Darryl, I mean maybe you could tell me.
Darryl: I'm not going there. I'm not going there. It's my job to challenge every single one of you guys, so I am not going here. You have to answer it.
Rachel Spencer: So one thing I guess that, again, I'm still kind of struggling with it is avoiding feature based selling because particularly, and I still feel this way in the higher education market that I sell into and I now have a team of three other ladies that are also selling into that industry which is amazing. I believe that it is the amazing feature set that VanillaSoft offers that is the value. We have so many incredible different features that you can be using and playing with. And I've had feedback all the time about, " Hey, your demos are really feature based." And that's something that I'm constantly pushing back on. People say you're just dumping loads of features on them, and I'm like, " Yeah, but that's kind of what our solution is all about. We've got so many different things that you can be doing." So I think the feature based selling thing I've struggled with because I think features are important. But I do absolutely understand that it's the value behind those features that is ultimately more important. And I'm still working on trying to convey that more effectively on the demo rather than getting stuck in feature land.
Darryl: So that's a bigger conversation for a lot of reps, right? So where we push back a little bit on, Rachel, and it's hard... Here's the thing, as a sales leader, it's hard to push back on a sales rep who's having such success, right? I mean, they're having success so they must be right, right? And maybe your belief is wrong. But some of what you're teaching reps, this is from a sales leader, if you will, who has the reps under them on the team. And in fairness, I want to be really clear in here, the actual day- to- day... Rachel's boss is Catherine, and if you at all looked in any of our content Catherine Robles, she's fantastic. Catherine is the one that manages the team, I work with Catherine, so I'm one layer removed, it's all cool. But the problem is that Catherine is caught in the middle. I tell Catherine, " We don't have enough activity. We don't have this, we don't have that. I'm listening to some of the calls, I'm not hearing this." And then, she goes and has to deal with it. Poor Catherine. So the challenge with the feature based approach and just where we have the back and forth, and this is a healthy conversation by the way, there is no right or wrong answer but there is... Whenever in doubt, remember I've taught this to you all before, AB test something, then you have your answer. That's the best part is this, we teach our reps you don't have to lead a demo with every single feature in the world because you will overwhelm them, all right? If you do your discovery properly and thoroughly, which is what she talked about, question based selling, so important. Then you can customize an initial demo to show them the features and functions that appeal to their initial needs. That can then lead to follow on demos with other stakeholders, we get more deep on the technical side or more deep on the reporting side or whatever it might be based on that stakeholder. And that's more of a patience thing, and it be intentional to Rachel's point. She's hearing all the boxes being checked and she just wants to jump in and say, " We do that. Here's the contract, sign it now." And hey, if it works, it works, right? That's the whole point about having a methodology to your sales framework. There's always going to be that tension between leaders and sellers, especially the high performing sellers, all right? That tension will never, ever go away. Rachel and I will never see eye to eye on this, but in the end she's hitting her numbers, she's going to get a lot of slack from me, that's just kind of how it works, it's wonderful that way. All right. We're out of time. So Rachel, if you-
Rachel Spencer: We're out of time. It went so quickly.
Darryl: I know. It goes fast, doesn't it? If you look back, this is your last question, you've got to go quick now, for somebody who's been in the industry say a year, six months to a year, and they're looking to you because you've been here maybe say five years actively selling in the B to B world. What's the advice you're going to give them based on where they're at right now from your vantage point?
Rachel Spencer: Stick with it. Be patient. I didn't sell anything at all in my first year and now I'm the top sales person at the company, so stick with it. Know your product, know your market, arguably, yeah, I don't know which is more important but that's where I would be spending almost all of your time. And try and have fun. And don't put too much pressure on yourself, because I think sometimes the more pressure you put on yourself the more you just repel sales and what you're looking for. It's that horrible thing in sales where the more you want it the less likely it is to happen, so relax, have fun. Remember the USP or the U in the USP is you.
Darryl: I love it. inaudible Rachel Spencer, she's a kick ass sales rep, as you can tell she's charming with lots of energy, it's infectious, it's one of the reasons she's been successful. It's the U in the USP, that's my takeaway. Maybe that's going to be the podcast name, you are the U in USP. So there we go. Rachel, thank you for your time. Everybody, give her a follow on LinkedIn. That's it. We're actually beyond time but it was just a dynamite conversation. I hope you enjoyed it, a little different. In the meantime we will see you next week. Take care folks. We'll talk to you soon. Bye- bye.