Do you have a mentor to help guide you through your sales career?
This week on INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl is joined by Sales Executive rockstar and co-founder of RevGenius, Galem Girmay. Darryl and Galem discuss how to best find support and guidance from your network to help you grow and advance your career. They also share valuable advice on finding a mentor such as making sure your relationships aren’t transactional, disregarding your naysayers, and how to avoid the echo chambers that keep you misinformed. Learn how to find the supports that will help you develop your sales superpower on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!
Speaker 1: Welcome to the INSIDE Inside Sales podcast with your host, Darryl Praill. Join us every week as we interview industry leaders and experts to uncover the ways they're finding sales success today. Tune in as Darryl brings you actionable strategies and tactics that can immediately increase your sales and success.
Darryl: Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, everybody. How the hell are you doing? That's what I said. How the hell? Not just how you doing? It's a how the hell are you doing kind of day. It's Darryl here. Good to see you again. It really is 2021. It's been an interesting time, hasn't it folks. I mean, man, you've got the hottest ticket in town is Clubhouse, it seems. We'll have a conversation on that one. I'm not sure I'm sold on it, but I do find it intriguing. You've got political turmoil and transition happening in the US. So hopefully whether you're a Republican or Democrat or Independent, I just hope 2021 is a little less conflict centric and a little more together as we move forward for you folks, because I love you all. And that's hard to live in. I get ya, especially as we're trying to have our own new normal, right? We continue to work from home, continue to try to hit our quotas. Oh my goodness. It's interesting. What I spend a lot of time doing these days, I don't know if I've shared this with you guys, is fielding calls. Believe it or not. I get a lot of people calling me, which is the first part of the question, well, why the hell would they call you, Praill, but they're actually calling me for career advice and looking for a little bit of mentorship, looking for advice. And I'm active in a handful of communities on the marketing side. There's a community I belong to for CMOs. And before I was CRO, as you recall, I was a CMO. And so I was on that one. It's a community called Peak and it's for CMOs and emerging CMOs. And that's in a really interesting community. We don't talk about things like what are open rates or what's the latest and greatest hacks to game in LinkedIn. We talk more about executive stuff, budgets and people and boards and all that kind of stuff. But what's always interesting is because it's for CMOs and emerging CMOs is I'll get a lot of people who will reach out to me and say," Hey, I'm a marketing director and I want to be the VP of marketing or CMO one day. So can I bend your ear and understand your journey? Because Darryl not only were you a CMO multiple times over, but now you've done even stupidest thing of all in your career is you became a CRO and I'm not sure I could ever have the balls to do that. But you did it and most marketers never get there. So I need to learn from you. What did you do right? Help me learn from my mistakes." And I love that they do that. And the reason I do that, the reason I give them time, and by the way I do the exact same thing on sales. I have a lot of sales calls. I have a lot of other CROs, fresh CROs just like me, and we actually get together and we talk and we compare notes and it's fun. And I look back in my career and as I made that transition from being a marketer to being a marketing leader, I made the same transition from being a bag carrying sales rep to being a sales leader, is I went to my peers and colleagues whom I worked with and alongside and full admission, in those days, LinkedIn was either non- existent or very nascent. And it certainly wasn't what it was today. Twitter didn't exist. Facebook. I'm not, I don't even think Facebook existed and Lord knows Clubhouse didn't exist. So I just had to go talk to people. It's crazy. And I remember one of my hardest transitions. There's two things that I struggled with when I transitioned into management. So if you have aspirations for this, learn from me. The one I transitioned was moving from a doer, someone who executes and just gets it done, to somebody who actually manages doers, which means it's no longer incumbent upon you. And that's really hard. I got to tell you that's hard because it's like, almost like," Oh, you suck at this. Here, hold my beer, stand out of the way. I'll show you how it's done." And the reality is, that's not how they learn. That's not how you learn. You learn by doing. So I had to learn to delegate. I had to learn that they're going to do things differently than I was going to do. I had to learn that what mattered not was necessarily the tactics and the techniques, but the outcomes. And I had to learn to trust. That was hard. I had to learn show restraint. That was hard. I had to learn to show patience. Oh, I still struggle with that. The other thing was kind of interesting as I went through the whole process of learning was when I talked to my peers was, I said," How do you succeed in these meetings, these executive meetings where all the decisions are made because I'm just getting shot down time and time and time again?" And this one fellow, he was a chief technology officer. He had to be 60 years old if he was a day and he shut the door and he started laughing at me. He goes," Oh, Darryl, Darryl, Darryl, Darryl." He goes," Here's what you need to know. Decisions aren't made in the meetings. Decisions are made long before the meeting." He goes," You're getting shot down because you're going to the meeting and thinking it's a decision making process and here's my idea. What do you think?" He goes," When I go in, I've already talked to every single person in that room for one, two, three, four weeks or more." I got their input. I've refined what I'm saying based on that feedback. So now I have ownership and buy- in. They're invested. So when I bring it up formally to be voted on and a decision made to go no- go, everybody in that room is already on my side." And I'm like," Holy shit, are you serious?" Rocked my world. Now think about it. How does that strategy play out? That strategy just doesn't apply to sales leadership, or marketing leadership or any kind of leadership. That plays out in sales. In sales, if you really to get that big deal done, you go and you canvas all of the influencers in the deal, different roles and positions. You get their input and you refine your approach. At least that's what you should do. If you're not doing it, that's an issue. So what you do now in sales is exactly what you're going to do as you go through your career. That's what I'm really trying to tell you that. I wouldn't have known this, if I didn't have mentors along the way. And that's exactly why I give back. Mentors are everything. The other thing I learned really fast was you never know when you'll get your ass handed to you and sent out the doors and sent packing. If you didn't have that network, no matter how good you were with the mentors, you were dead in the water. So your career, guys and gals, comes down to two things. Do you have the network to make sure you're going to be viable, you're going to be sustainable, that you're going to be able to earn a living wage? And do you have the mentors to help you grow and achieve the goals you want to do? Sales is about that. Marketing's about that. Being a brick layer is about that. This is just good career skills 101. So I thought to myself," Who's the right person to talk about this?" And there's this poster child. There's this poster child of an individual who has just demonstrated how building a network and building a series of mentors where it's a win- win dynamic can propel you to great heights, to great wins, to great victories. It's staggering what this individual has accomplished in such a short period of time. And I am thrilled to have her here today. Everybody put your hands together for Galem Girmay. Galem, how are you, my friend?
Galem: I am so good. And that was one of the nicest compliments that I've ever received being a poster child. Thank you.
Darryl: Oh, well, you are. I mean, and here's the thing about Galem, right? So Galem is one of the, when I say you're a poster child, you are. So there's a couple of things. One thing about Galem, she's the poster child. The thing is really annoying about Galem and this is an honest to God thing, like you just want to slap her is she's so damn nice. If you want to be a poster child because they clawed their way to the top and then get out of my way and you're like," Okay, testosterone, get it on my way, whatever." No, she did it by being a fricking nice person and high integrity. And I think that's what makes you stand out so much. That's, to me, why you're a poster child. Who doesn't love you, Galem? I mean, with all sincerity, do you have anybody who doesn't like you? I just got to ask you that.
Galem: I don't know because I don't care really if they do or don't like me. I'm sure there are people who find me annoying or frustrating. I don't know. There had definitely been in my previous part of my life. I remember in high school, people did not like me. And in college, I wasn't that involved. And people probably didn't like me for that, but there's always going to be people around you, no matter where you are and what you do, that are either going to be threatened by you or just not support you, or don't like you for who you are or the position that you're in or your aspirations and ambitions and all that stuff. I've just come to learn over time that it doesn't really matter because I don't care about other people's opinions about myself. Not to say it doesn't affect me when people don't have something positive to say, of course it does. We're all human beings, but I tend to meditate that shit away.
Darryl: Look at the oxymoron. Galem said," I tend to meditate," I'm just thinking in my mind," Hmm,"" that shit away." I love it. That's awesome. And it's so true because I, myself, I have no problem telling people, I was a total loner in school and I was a loner again in college, whenever I started these processes and I stuck to my guns about what I thought was important, which means I took a lot of abuse and teasing and torment and taunting as you get in school. School's just like, Oh my gosh. I can't believe we leave school sane sometimes. And then for me it was turning, I was maybe 15 years old in high school I suddenly realized the power of humor. For me, I was able to use humor to get accepted and to become, if you will, an influencer in the high school ranks. But then I left and I went to college. Now you're 18 and you're doing it all over again in different city, different people. And you're starting from ground zero. And it was the end of my second year that I suddenly start to realize," Oh, I see what's going on here." And then I had an amazing career with great visibility and everything else after that. It takes time. But you're right. I don't give a shit. I love it. That's the whole point. That's why the whole idea of I'm going to network and protect myself by being a bro, if you will, whether you're male or female, because that's how you fit in, that's not how you fit in. That's not how you have success. Being a bro, I'm telling you right now, the ass slapping, the back slapping, the derogatory comments about your peers, stay away from that. All right. I want to talk to you, my good friend Galem, about a couple of things. Now for those who don't know. All right. So if you don't know Galem, you should be following her right now. So Galem Girmay. And she's, of course, on LinkedIn, but she's also massive on Twitter. And in fact, if you haven't checked it out, check out her midweek rants. I'm just going to say that to you, check it out. You're going to love it. She's begun Instagram. And most recently she's on Clubhouse and Galem is the reason I'm on Clubhouse. She gave me one of her invites. So she's a rockstar. I love her for that. And she didn't have to do that because she was already scheduled to be on the show. So she did it again because he was just fricking nice. I want to talk to you about every single sales rep out there who looks at you and say like," I've seen Galem become very visible," whether it's on social media or it's your involvement at RevGenius or the influence you have on other people, how you connect the dots. You're a matchmaker. I watch you connect people nonstop, which is part of adding value with no ask in return. I'm going to talk to you about that. And I want to talk to you about the importance of building a network around yourself. But first we're going to go for a little break so that way we're not interrupted. Everybody, I've got Galem Girmay here. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
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Darryl: All right, I want to talk to you first and foremost about mentorship, about career paths. If I were to stop you in the street because I'd see you, is that Galem, is that Galem, let me stop you. I said," Galem, will you be my mentor?" Should I do that? Do people do that to you? Have you done that to people? And if so, why did you do it? What was your goal? What was your objective and how did you figure out who could be a mentor and who might not be a mentor? Just talk to me about, help me understand and learn from you so that our audience can take your approaches and apply it to their own situation.
Galem: Yeah, for me, I mean, that's so awkward. To me, to just stop someone as if they're this celebrity, I don't like to look at people as if they're the shit. They're just other human beings and that's it for me. And I don't like if anyone, that's never happened to me ever, but if anyone were like that towards me, I would be like," That's a red flag. You're weird. Why don't you just talk to me like another human being." It would just be awkward to me. And I don't know what I would respond with. And I would probably feel like Beyonce, where people are just like," Oh my God, Beyonce." I don't want to feel that. But what I've been doing over the past eight to 10 months is all virtual. I've just lived in a virtual world, like many others. And so that's been my way of reaching out to people, finding mentors, building a network, making friends like you, Darryl, is just by connecting with people online and utilizing and matching people up. If I know you know somebody that I'm interested and curious about, and I'm also like, this is part of my personality, I'm very direct, I would just go and ask you like," Hey, I know that you know this person that I'm really curious about? Do you mind making an introduction for me?" And if I have already created a relationship with you, which I have, I already know before asking you that you won't have a problem making that happen. So for me, it's not about, per se, being nice. It's just more about being intentional and being strategic and thoughtful about my involvement and who I reach out to and why I reach out to them. I wouldn't just randomly reach out to someone just because they seem to be a nice person, unless I've heard something interesting about that individual that I want to have a conversation with them about.
Darryl: So there's already a couple of things going on for you. And I hear you say that. One, you're already aware of the community. So you are, by default as you're building your mentorship and asking for help or doing the matchmaking or just seeking advice or seeking a referral, so whether it's personal or business related is the precursor to your ability to do that is you're in the community, whether it be a RevGenius or a Twitter or a LinkedIn or an Instagram. So you already have developed, shall we say, some online relationships, and then that allows you to take an individual connection and make that ask. And the second thing I heard you say was, I love that you said it, was you didn't give a shit, first part. So it's mindset. I've talked about mindset before and it really does come down to mindsets. You're not going," Should I? Shouldn't I?" It's just like," Of course, I'm going to ask you and of course you're going to give it to me." And the reason that is, though, is because one of the things about you specifically, Galem, is probably two things come to mind. One is you're a very generous person. In other words, again, folks, for those who don't, I've said this over and over again, 90 plus percent of the social online community are lurkers. You ever go to a community? I'll use RevGenius, maybe it's Thursday night sales, whatever. All right, you go and watch that. And no matter where they are in their hierarchy, they're just brand new in their career or they're a seasoned executive, 90% of those people on those calls or those live streams, don't talk. And they're the same way on social. They lurk. So they're watching your behavior. And what we see when we watch you, Galem, is the fact that you are intentional. We see you connecting the dots. We see you adding value. We see you asking questions, right? So Clubhouse was a really good example. I shared, folks, that she gave me one of her Clubhouse invites. She literally just went to Twitter and she posted out there for the world to see," I've got three invites. Who wants one?" And what's interesting about that is there was nothing in it for her and she could have been more specific and said," Hey, Billy, hey, Sally, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. You want to get in? And now you owe me a chit right? I'm going to withdraw on that later on." But she didn't do that. She just gave to the community. Everybody sees that. So when Galem comes back to you and asks you for something, of course, you're going to do it. Talk to me about that because you could have, Clubhouse is an example, you could have very easily held onto those invites and hand them out to strategic people who could help you later on, maybe people in positions of authority, power, whatever. Why did you do that? And what's your advice to people who don't do that?
Galem: Yeah. And I thought about that too. I always make calculated decisions. And I thought, because you can see a list in your own contacts like," Oh, this person is not here yet. Do you want to invite them to this particular app?" And I saw a couple of people that I'm good friends with and I thought about it for a second. But then there was nothing that they've said before that they're interested in this. And there were certain people that I've even mentioned it to who was not interested at the time a couple of months ago. So I thought I'm not going to go in with the assumption to waste these three invites on someone who may not accept it or be interested in it. And I also don't feel like bringing it up again. So I'm just going to put it out there and before I even posted it on Twitter, I posted it on my Instagram because there are tons of lurkers there. I would have hundreds of people looking at what I post on my story, but only a handful would actually engage with it. So there's that. And that's the thing about communities, regardless if it's a Slack community, LinkedIn or any socials, is that you can have tons of connections and people, but that doesn't mean that you have great engagement and following and that will go with you regardless of which platform that you migrate into. But with the Clubhouse thing, I was just like," I'm going to put it out there into the universe and see who's interested." So I did. A few people reached out and they were interested and I gave out the first two, no questions asked. Then I had the third and the last one and I had two, three other people who interested in it, too. But the reason why I didn't give it to either one of those and gave to you, Darryl, who was the third or fourth person asking for it or interested in getting on, was the fact that you and I have already talked before versus the other ones, they were just random people to me and I had no connection to them whatsoever. Now they just wanted to utilize this invite that I had, and they didn't know how many more I had left, how many I'd already given away, but I had to make that decision. And I said," I either give it to Darryl who I already know and have built a relationship with, or I give it to this random person who probably would never join me in a Clubhouse room or create a room with me there anyway." So I gave it to you.
Darryl: See, that's brilliant. And that's the story that we need more of. So again, guys, INSIDE Inside social, it's all about helping you how to execute on a tactical level. And what I'm showing you is here's a individual who has been very intentional about her career while simultaneously not giving a shit and while simultaneously, how do I put this, valuing the importance of relationships. She understands it's not necessarily transactional. That's what I'm trying to get at. And too many of you treat you as transactional. So then I have to ask you this, Galem, because your career is just, I know you've been doing really, really well, but this last year has been a blow- up year for you. But before that, for it to be a blow- up year, you had to be at a certain state of knowledge and readiness for that to be able to happen. How did you go about getting advice and mentorship and what lessons can you share for others here that you've learned, good and bad?
Galem: Yeah, I think before kind of the blow up in, it was around March 2020 is when I got really involved, really, really hyper, intentional, and focused on executing to grow and to build my career. And now at the very end of that year, I just made a huge move in my career into a different company, different position and it's changing a lot in terms of even more so how intentional I am with the time I'm spending and with the people around me in my career. I really am focused on building a long- term career in sales and I made the right move for myself and my family to do that. So that's what's happening for me on a professional side of things, but it's the thing about being focused and, like you said earlier, it's not transactional for me. It's about building those relationships. And I had reached back in March, April, last year, I had reached what I call a fuck it level, which means like," Okay, what do I have to lose?" Absolutely nothing by getting involved, by putting myself out there other than part of what I wanted to kind of protect about myself. I was not feeling as confident back then as I do today about who I am and what I have to share with the world. And I was afraid of being judged by who I am, but then I reached this level of just like," What do I have to lose? Absolutely nothing. It doesn't hurt to try it. Let me see where this goes." And that's what I did. And that's how I ended up where I was in end of last year and continued to going to now. And those relationships were the most critical for me. I was at a point of," I am desperate for information. I'm desperate for connections, and I really want to just meet other people and learn from them so I can improve my life and my career."
Darryl: So there's a couple of things I want to unpack there. So I can relate to so much of what you're saying. Part of my story, I've shared this with others, there's one I don't know if I've shared before. So for me, early in my career, earlyish in my career, I had a boss who was brutal. They hired me and then I never saw them again. And then the one time they came and they said something completely stupid to me based on what their wife thought was important. Not them as a boss, a supposed mentor. And I was so frustrated. I was ready to get fired because I had just felt like I was flailing. I got to that fuck it level, as you said, I love it, where I said," Screw it. I'm just going to do what I think needs to be done, because I trust in myself to have some skills. Yeah, I know I don't know everything yet, especially at that point in my career, but I know what I'm doing now is not going to work." I know what he's telling me is not going to work, so I'm just going to do it. And if I get fired, well, then I go out with my head held high, as opposed to just being anxious and upset and withdrawn and doubting myself." And instead what happened was I kicked ass and the end of that year, he pulled me into his office. He said," Yeah, I know I suck as a boss," but he gave me a fricking massive raise. And he says," You were incredible. Just keep doing what you're doing." So there are moments in your career exactly as Galem said, where you just have to finally say fuck it and just do it. So I love that. The other part about you, but when you said," What do I have to lose?" Okay. So when I started at VanillaSoft, LinkedIn was just a CV for me. That's all it was, but I knew I needed to be out there in the community because that was the modern way to sell and connect and network. So I finally said," Okay, I guess I have to be a public figure." And part of networking is being a public figure. Galem, you're a public figure. Whether you want to be or not, whether you're comfortable in your skin or not, that's what you have become. I've become that as well. I'm not Galem, I'm like little Galem, and it was the same thing. It was just like, this is what I have to do. I have to be intentional. There's too many of you who are not being intentional about your career, about the community, about your learning, about your mentorship. But when you are, I'm telling you, I have people come to me now and they're like," Oh, I can never be you. Oh my gosh, you're legendary." Galem, I know you get that. You're Beyonce, as you just said, your words, not mine, but hey, you're right. You're Beyonce. And they look at you and say," I can never do that," but go back in time. You were just a normal person.
Galem: Here's the thing I want to be very clear about. You're not supposed to be like other people.
Galem: Be who you are and be confident in who you are and your abilities and get better than who you were before, because you're constantly becoming a new version, like who I was in 2020 and the things that I learned, now I'm at a new ceiling and now I have other places to go and other things to explore. So that's the whole point. And for me, with my life, not just my career, but me as a person, what I've recognized is that I've always been the domino. And I think you are, too, Darryl, in a lot of your ways and relationships and career moves. If you are the domino, meaning you start something and then other people tend to follow that or you create an environment or a place or you do something that allows other people to look at it and say," Wow, I can do that too," that's being a domino and that's putting something in motion. And that's what I'm here to do. It's just the idea of being that domino to empower other people to believe that," Yeah, I can do that too," because literally I am, if we go back to what you said earlier, the poster child, I don't see myself as that. But what I see is just somebody who went against all the odds that were against me. Because when you grow up in a country with parents who immigrated and you grow up in the foster care system, you're not supposed to graduate from college. You're not supposed to get a good job. You're not supposed to really be able to take care of yourself, but somehow you manage to do that. And I know other people who have been in similar, same situations and you just have to find it within yourself to figure out who you are and what your superpower is and do more of that and get other people to do that too.
Darryl: Okay. So let's just hit this, all right? For everybody out there who thinks the answer to your career success is to take shortcuts. How do I gain LinkedIn in algorithms? How do I connect with influencers so they could hook me up with bigger influencers? How do I project the personality I think they want to be? I'm telling you that doesn't work. And what you end up getting is a handful of people just like you in an echo chamber telling you how awesome you are, but they're going to leave you. They have no loyalty to you. It doesn't work. What Galem's telling you, I've experienced it firsthand, she said," Stop trying to be everybody else." She said," Just be true to you." She goes," Understand your superpower." I love that point. What's your superpower? For me, my super power was that I can be a smart ass on video and I could wave my hands around and I can have high energy. That doesn't mean I'm smart. That's my superpower. I'm not a Scott Leese. I'm not a Galem Girmay. I am not a Benjamin Dennehy. I'm not a Jeb Blount. That's my superpower. You got to get to that fuck it moment and you got to be genuine and biggest part is you have to be in the community. And if you give, they will give back. That's what it's all about. Mentorship, networking comes from that. It's a lot of self- awareness. And that's the thing, Galem. You're very self- aware. You're very mature. So is this something that everybody can do?
Galem: Of course, but I think a lot of people tend to look at the tactical things. How do I do this? And the way I've started to think about it from professional and personal perspective is that everyone has a personal budget. Everyone has, hopefully, I shouldn't say everyone, because maybe there are people out there who are like," No, you're not speaking to me because I got laid off. I don't have an income." Well, then, let's pretend. Okay? Let's pretend you do have an income and whatever that number is, now the actions that you're taking every day, money is going to get withdrawn from your account if you do the wrong thing. If you do the right thing, you will get more money. And that's how I look at my life. So if I'm sitting here sending an email to a prospect and all I'm talking about to this prospect is about me," This is why I'm great. This is why you should buy from me," well, guess what? I'm losing money. And I have this kind of tab that I keep track of," Okay, you just spent three sentences in this email, talking about you and your product. You just lost 1, 000 bucks. Now you're in the negatives." And then next day, all I did in a meeting was talking about me. Let's say, that's what I did. Now I lost another 500. And I keep thinking in those terms, if I'm somebody, because I see too much of this, people are being self- serving all the time. They reach out to me and they say," Hey, want to get time with you. Here's my calendar link." I'm like,"And who gave you the right to send that to me? You just lost 1, 000 bucks. I'm not interested." Don't be that person. Think about how would this feel if somebody did this to you and it wouldn't feel good, so don't do that to other people.
Darryl: When it comes to your career, when it comes to success, when it comes to networking, when it comes to being mentored or being a mentor, when it comes to building a network around yourself, developing your own personal brand, you just had a masterclass today, folks. She said a few key things that resonate with me. Galem said," Do the right thing." She said," Find your I don't give a fuck moment." She says," Use your superpower." She said," Be the domino." Now these may sound like cliches to some of you, but if you're really listening to what she said, what she said was," If you give to the community without expectation, they will give back." She wrapped it up with an analogy about," What's your income and what does it cost you?" Too many of you try to take shortcuts. Respect yourself, have confidence in yourself to stop that shit. Be like Galem. Galem, I've had a fantastic time today. For those who don't know, again, all right, Galem Girmay. She is a sales executive at GoContractor. Please follow her LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and on Clubhouse. She's a rockstar. I really wanted to talk about Clubhouse. We've run out of time. Another day we'll do that. But in the meantime, Galem, you rock. I just thank you so much.
Galem: Thank you. And so do you, Darryl. I love having you in my life and my circle. And I look forward to creating a room in Clubhouse with you to talk about Clubhouse.
Darryl: I love it. That's it. We're out of time folks. We're way out of time. My name is Darryl Praill. This is Galem Girmay. This, my friends, is another episode in the books. Remember we're going to call it Be the Domino on the INSIDE Inside Sales show.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the INSIDE Inside Sales podcast with your host, Darryl Praill. We hope you enjoyed the show. And if you did, we would greatly appreciate you taking a moment to leave us a review on the platform you're listening to the show from today. Also, please feel free to share this program with your friends and colleagues. Thank you.