There is no shortage of opinions when it comes to cold calling, but is it just a numbers game?
This week on INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl welcomes David Walter, best-selling author of The Millions Dollar Rebuttal. Darryl and David discuss the many aspects surrounding cold calling, from the roles that should be responsible, to where your leads should come from. They also share the many secrets to making more quality appointments that are highlighted in David’s book. Learn how you can make better and more successful cold calls on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!
Welcome to the INSIDE Inside Sales podcast with your host Daryl Praill.
Join us every week is we interview industry leaders and experts to uncover the ways their findings Dale's except today.
Do Nana's Daryl brings you actionable strategies and tactics but can immediately increase your sales and success. Oh my goodness. How is everybody doing today? Dude, exciting happen in your life this week folks. Are you working hard or is the classic line likes to say. Are you hardly working? It's not a great question. I love that mine. Are you working hard or hardly working? Because what I've learned with age not that I'm old. Let's be clear in that. I am not old. I am spry. Yeah, let's go with that. I look at people around me.
Who are successful and I see I see kind of two camps of people. I see the one camp where they just worked there, but they are non-stop Non-Stop gogogogogo and
Betsie River camp where they spent half the day on the beach reading or walking or hiking and yet they're hitting massive numbers. And for me, I find that second Camp annoying as hell and it reason I find it. So annoying it's because it's out of like they've stumbled onto this Magic Fountain of Knowledge or opportunity where the money just comes to them and they don't have to work for it or I'm doing something wrong because I'm the first Camp. I work nonstop the fact I was on a call this morning with a partner and they made a comment to me that I seem to be getting on a regular basis anymore, which it probably is it's meant as a compliment, but it's probably
It's probably a warning sign and ignore. What I what I hear is like dude. I don't know how you do it like you're on social media and I'm stuck making content non-stop. Like you're everywhere. I see your name. How do you do that? Plus b the CMO at bonilla's office. How do you do all that? I can only smokes or everywhere. I can't do what you're doing. I would find that exhausting and you talk all the time talking non-stop that's going to be like, I'm an introvert by talked nonstop afterwards. I just want to collapse and yeah, I know you're doing this multiple production today.
You're everywhere. You're working hard. I supposed to Hardly Working Girl and there's a lot of Truth in that but I got to be candid with you. I'm actually really really jealous of those people who do not perhaps put the same amount of activity in that I do and get far better results and I covet their success. I want to know what they're doing and I see this as a recurring theme whether it's in marketing or sales in the marketers West Emory email address. Are we going to have more followers real to have a bigger list anymore when I see it on sales today 9200 calls today that I need to do then.
It's a numbers game.
Your fall into that trap. It's a numbers game where you you just think of it as did more. I got up early. I see this all the time. I finally have learned to get up at 3 in the morning and now I can meditate and I can do my work out and I can be you know at my desk at 5. So I'm calling Europe and then you know by 9 in the morning call the east coast and I can work and I can do the west coast and then I can keep on going I can do Asia in my car work stupid long hours and I managed to get it all the way in and I have no life and I've gotten fat because I don't get any Christmas phone in his desk and there you go.
I see a boat and a sea camps on both sides. So what's the right answer? Where do you go from here?
I have this conversation all the time with with us at me and my colleagues here in vanilla soft. You know, they're saying there'll be more of these and I've seen what do you need more leads or do you need better quality leads? What if I gave you were leads but more quality would not be better that you could actually really invest time and a whole account bass, you know selling and marketing tactic give time to research it really sell your people in navigate the account since I was just making a ham in the phone and email and social media touches quantity vs quality and it's an angel thing. We all seem to fall back on quality right when it's not going our way. We need to do more. I am wired that way need to do more need to do more need to get up earlier. Sorry, honey. Can't go for that walk with these three kids can play with you cuz I got to get up early in the morning cuz I got to go and need to do more stuff scalable.
Are you sitting listening to this? Am I am I hitting some energetic feeling the complex that you may be suffering because you're like yeah, damn it girl. That's my life. That's where I'm at. And I think if I just do more then I'm going to get that shiny object that I'm striving for and then I can provide better for my family or I can buy me stuff that that cool trinket. I really want or I can say for my retirement. Here's the thing what you need to know is it whether it's work smarter not harder, it's quantity not quality. Do I track activities or do I not to like activity? I've heard people say it over and over again Darrell.
It comes to cold calling. It's just a numbers game see a wrap this all up and I said I need to speak on this who who who is the right person that I can speak to and that's when I recognized that Amazon's best-selling author David Walter. You don't know David. He's the best on offer up a million-dollar rebuttal. He is out there on his book where he explicitly says cold calling is not a numbers game.
So that my friends is what I bring to you right now my good friend. David Walter David. Welcome to show. How are you doing, sir?
I got to hire you all the time to go with me everywhere. You know, I love it. The emotion that's the key got you hit the nerve of emotion and that's what people listen. It's right real let you know. I know this I lived as my wife Frets and worries about me and activity. I keep my doctor worries about me and yet I know I'm still held accountable. If I don't do the relativity's I don't get retain as an employee which is going to affect my ability to provide for my family. So I have the circular logic and when I saw the title of your book will call these numbers game. I'm like damn it. I got to get David of the show. I'm so I have to ask you if you don't know. I don't know OK D vit ran a call center for 13 years when he was doing that. He was doing like 15 appointments per day. So he understands the whole idea me to think about to call center. He gets activity. He understands how to set up appointments and everything. He's done here.
Is based on his own experience, but I have to ask you David. What was your Catalyst for writing this book?
What's a judge that goes I want to be author on my life. And basically you have to be an expert at something and went out when I what got me into running my own call center was working at a company the book CSI where I did set 15 appointments every day for 6 months sitting over 18 of appointments when everyone else in the company in a call center set to appointment today the Catalyst for me doing that was I help my dad make $1000000 in hbse business and then he went bankrupt when we hit the nice recession. I had to go find a job. I found this job and I thought I was going to try to make enough money to get my Bible and for my parents to get a house, you know, they were living with me. That was my motivation for 4 actually 7:15 appointment today the motivation for writing the book was I realized when I walked away from that job and I started my call center. I just realized what I had done. I had actually revolutionize the concept of cold calling.
And I didn't realize it at all the while or am I cold calling center? Lots of people didn't want to pay my price. It was like $10,000 a month for it to have my Team Coco for them and they would try to get my secrets and I would just hold him close to my best and I realized when I decided that I want to write a book that I wanted to be an author that was something that was a game-changer that I didn't realize wait 30 years ago, but I don't if I realize 30 years ago what I've done I would have written this book 30 years ago. So it's a game-changer even today and that's why I put that you know, I put that Google is not a numbers game on my book is because even till this day
30 years for most people still think whole calling the numbers game and that's what resin with people most effect that title when I put it on some ads on different things is what drove it to be coming towards us out. This is probably the biggest I look over the course of my career and I've been both a head of sales going to head of marketing multiple times. I saw I had been on both sides of the fence and if I look at my career when I was the sales guy, I would always say to marketing you're not giving me enough leads and I was a marketing always say, what do you mean you need more late what's wrong with the lease and give you now the top on it being a numbers game are not being a numbers game is I think foundational to the struggle between sales and marketing be a lion tour sales being successful. So now
Since you wrote, it's you that you said, you know, they were my clients would want to know my secret and I told it close to my best but then you turned around. He wrote this one cannot get a hold of close to my vest anymore. So I missed the tackle that right away. What changed? Why did you go from? I'm not going to give you my cigarettes to I want to put it out there and put it in for the whole world to see.
The reason why is because whenever in my call center, I realized after running it it while I read a passage from The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and he said have you found yourself at the top of your ladder leaning against the wrong building?
And I realized that the call center that I ran while I was successful wasn't really have an impact that I wanted in in I change careers. But what I wanted to do as I realized that companies should do their own calling and salespeople should be the ones to the co calling not the people at higher because when you get when I go to hire people, it's your dealing with the bottom of the barrel people that want to go call, you know for $70 an hour. They're not the highest quality people. They're not the smartest people necessarily and that's a problem. Then there's no jobs. I don't get you higher key. There's no movement that that's it. It's a manager me that have other few other positions, but it's it's a dead-end job basically or as sales people can use it they can a company that is as a sales organization, but as many departments can bring in people and pay them less to be pre-sales and then move them up in the sales and management always other things so you can actually tracked better call the candidates and it's cold calling.
Requires a Salesman you're going to talk to a CEO a controller and persuade them to set an appointment that's almost harder than actual Selleck believe it or not. And I don't like you said I've done both I've done sales. I've done setting appointments that's hard and requires more sales skills believe or not to do that and that's why I want to basically give this out to people so they could stop hiring polling companies and try to do what internal and have silk people do it.
So that is that it I love that story. I love because I want to talk about it. And that's the way love with the sales can do this the same reason we do this podcast. I think sample me do so much content. I bet it was off is because we want to share with the tribe if you want to share what we've learned and I mean to tell you for all those are listening there are as many person people we have on our shows and I listen to a nugget or a piece of advice or a category strategy and I go damn it were supposed to be the experts here. They were not doing that and then turn around and I go in at any minute and I see great things of the company and have my towel and you know, I'm painting for that. It's just what we do as tribe. And so that's a no day but I feel like I'm a kindred spirit of yours has to go talk with everything about what he what it means what the secret sauce is in the end. We're going to give you exact show recommendations on how you can apply to your calling tactics. There were asking he's going to share this with you.
Going to go to commercial break you wanted to options you can do 1 if you can sit back and listen to it or to you can go to Amazon check out his book and put it in your cart and you can buy it. So there you go will bring back CRM was designed for managing relationships sales engagement is designed for starting them current stats indicate that sales rep only contact New Leads about 50% of the time make listen to attempt to contact them and they're only about 35% productive CRM is the wrong tool to engage sales prospects vanilla sock is a sales engagement platform. It allows you to rapidly turn marketing qualified leads into sales qualified leads according to user reviews vanillasoft will increase your pipeline and productivity by three times or more blow your quota out of the water how by Insurance each Lucile's Lee disengage within seconds persistently and with the cadences optimal for your prospects don't like your sales leads.
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Do I know the kind of set the stage? I got a prompt you and then you just run with the ball. So here we go. I know you like to draw an analogy to the movie.
Pursuit of Happiness. I want to pass the ball over to you.
All right. Well in the pursuit of happiness, I hope everybody in the audience has seen that if you haven't go watch it immediately on the most impactful movies I've ever seen about drive and termination insurmountable obstacles. But anyway, there's a clip on YouTube and if you put in the cold calling Pursuit of Happiness will find it on YouTube. And what does the details Will Smith the character? He's playing that I actually went through all that. He's trying to become a broker and he's not being paid he comes in late cuz his child has to take her but she's the only one he's in charge of his son has the mother's gone. But anyway, so you can just see what he describes how he comes in late and because of that he can't you can't get to the top of the list they have list in that brokerage firm and they go from the bottom to the top and I'll get into that 2 minute, but he can't get to the top but he still doesn't drink water to go to the bathroom all the stuff. He still can't get to the top of the list.
And he's to get to the top. And so what you see the pivotal moment that I want you to focus on when you watch that video is right when he raps that speech up. He's looking at his list and he sees he's call these companies and start buying the top of the list if I can only be at the top of the list and he just he starts moving his pen skipping over leads skipping over least goes to the top Walter ribbon the top lead he circles and he calls he gets Walter if he has an appointment with Walter and effect, of course Walter is a no cell but be persistent. He actually goes with house one then gets invited to go do a game and at the game he networks with all these people that ended up buying and buying from him and he becomes he went spoiler alert who becomes a broker, but I will be clean from that.
Is that he was random he stopped doing consecutive call. He was consecutively calling and went to a random move. And that's really what is the numbers game. The numbers game is there's lots of ways were things are a numbers game just a cut this out and make it very clear.
When you're calling when people say it's a numbers game, they're talking about what you have a CRM of 100 leaves load in there or you have a list of a hundred name. So you have to call all hundred what they do is they call consecutively and they go through their list and call everybody in the list. They try to make hundreds of calls a day.
that is a numbers game why it's wrong and why it's almost an insane idea is because it doesn't grasp the concept of what what you learn in that pot laying in that movie is that Randall you see
if you if you could visualize your list and you anybody's each list would be a marker color that would change from yellow green red green bean. Great time to call the guys there waiting as you call you go through from the bottom to the top hits red red red red. They're not in that in that in once you pass and you will you get on like the 10th 11th 12th lead the first and second lead actually start showing green and other words. What I'm saying is when you were calling and they say the person's on the phone during the conference call. There's a bank. There are the office. They're telling you the truth. These people are moving around their Dynamic and if I just make one call that person likely I'll miss that contact.
And so what the what the numbers game concept is that you're going to miss most of the people just by making one pass and one call 200 companies when you need to do to make multiple calls to that, but I would often say is that if I if I if you gave an assistant or someone else not a go call her a task and said I need you to go make contact with somebody important a vendor of ours my lawyer someone in Port of my you know, somebody for like that in charge of a large organization. You wouldn't imagine there'll that they would just make one call pick up the phone and say you out there wants to be with you. So and so no most likely they would have to make several calls email text to get in contact with that person. Does that make sense?
and so something so what we're doing is we're setting the wrong go for people were saying go make hundreds of calls a day. What is it called going to get you? Nothing. The name of the game is contact Baby contacts. I want to know when I had my call center. I want to know don't tell me how many calls me honey. I'm texting you make right eye contact is the only thing that could lead to an appointment and the self in the pipeline. And so what we should be telling prospects. I mean our employees salespeople SDR btr's is go make contact. How many contacts did you make today? Not how many calls I had this conversation many times where I'll say to people I think that the the numbers game is wrong because it shouldn't be about the number of calls. She made all I'll use the word how many conversations did you have today? Cuz that's really what I care about. But I mean am I seeing the same thing as what you were saying contact would be with the decision maker and you had to do
Euro, how's it going? My name is David. You know that's that was a contact now. I could see it in there or could become a long talk or to become an appointment. But still that's your pool of possibilities.
Okay. So if cold calling is not a numbers game as you're saying it's that's why it's wrong to example you gave I'm at the bar, but how many contacts make conversation that you have dodgeball decision-makers then? Give me tell me what I'm doing wrong in my current approach or said another way. How do I you know, I'm sure the person listening right now. It says well, obviously I want to have those conversations. That's why I'm doing this. So what am I doing wrong or what do I need to do to have those conversations with those contacts?
Old correct, but just to give them confidence when I said 15 appointments a day. The only way that was possible is I started making 40 contacts a day.
40 contacts a day and I did that buy appliances principal and that's so it's you have to do that. It's absolute you have to dramatically you're going to set more appointments. You can only do that by dramatic increase in your contacts you at and so to get to answer a question the way you do it is counterintuitive. The reason why people are doing it the way that I've prescribed is because they're afraid of burning the lead.
Basil you have to call more times. It said something called War times in the Steve Jobs movie when Mark markkula shows up there and he says yes, you called my this other gentleman. He says if you listen, he says you called him a hundred and fifty times.
Navigate to be caused by a hundred fifty times, but the point is you have to dramatically increase the number from one only to multiple and I specifically prescribed to call three times a day. When we do you need to call like in the morning in the afternoon that you called at three different times for three days three to four days. Now. Why won't you why do I say you won't burn that lead?
If you do what most people do as I call and make this glorious announcement my name my company and the first and last name of the person. I'm trying to get ahold of which is another topic and Offspring salesmen decrease Gatekeepers.
I remember back to when I was a distributor taking calls for security products and I remember vendors will call in all these different types of people call in to be like is Steve around. Can you try for me, for the simple things? That's how you supposed to call. This is Dave I'm calling for Daryl is Daryl in today. I'm calling is there was probably gone for the day in calling from that's the whole idea is you can call like that in that way multiple times and not get caught. They don't then I can remember how many Bob's call him at day right? I'll be 5 then I can remember what happens if you keep calling past 3 to 4 days.
They start to remember your voice and they start out you and then they'll remember you and I'll be burnt don't call anymore the other things you do as you don't leave voicemails every time you call.
Jewelry with me Daryl if I called and left a voicemail for you. It would be I would have to stop calling and so give you time to listen to that voicemail. Call me back if I call the next day with another voice mail in the next day or another voicemail you would get irritated, correct?
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah big boy. So if you don't do that, right if you don't leave voicemails and you don't make a big production just say this is David tribe tribe on one. Do you want burn the lead and you can increase the times you call?
And make more contact soup. Simply saw it in a way. It is a numbers game, but it's calling war records less X not calling more records fewer times is that makes sense. It doesn't make sense. Let me draw some parallels here. That's only if I got this, right. So instead of doing a hundred calls a day. That's the simple number you're saying is a hundred days is really a hundred contacts. No individuals you're saying I call 40 individuals a day and those individuals like me to call three times. So I'm not supposed Mathis. 220 calls today. I'm making I'm just calling those individuals 3 * see rightly. So I'm calling a smaller number. So I have more bandwidth to call them more frequently and increase my likelihood of connecting with them as opposed to going through and calling them once and giving up. This is what we see over and over again people used to your M. Treat the tool like exactly like what day was talking about? I'm going to call them lights and never try again.
That's why we see on average people make 223 called him to make him up and those two three, that for you to spread out over weeks and then I just stopped so they have and that's the issue there over there the part you're really saying that it doesn't decide bar there where I remember. It was a socket. I think I want to stay with Michael pedone. He told a story recently forced her to call and they have phone books in those days is first job is in a start dialing and what he did was he jumped right away to the middle of the phonebook to the MS because he knew all the new rap started at the a so the abcdes just got her ass non-stop of calls and they all gave up before they ever got to the yams. He started calling the yams and he just did the same thing. Right? And he he he would do I want to M N O & P today and that's it. I'm making that up your daddy and I had much more success for him. It's it's also to the voicemail thing is really interesting. You know what Davidson like getting
To hear was pretty interesting, but I didn't know where he was going to go with this conversation. I'm listening to this the first time and you re getting into the idea but Cadence which has a near that I want to hit you over and over and over and over and over again, maybe it's you know, the cliche 7 touches in 7 days to form any of our in our account. Our clients have been there doing exactly what you just said. They were there hitting them two and three times in one day and then look at my break for a day and three more times second in the third day and then give her a break for 2 days and I'll hit him again for more times and let you know that the next next time and they're mixing it up some reason the phone leaving a voicemail the next time there ghosts in another words think I can see the number came up on my call display. There's no voicemail last was enough as a trigger to say. Yeah, I was out of my office but I recognize that number but because it's spread out. I understand the rap is just chasing me. He's not stalking me which is a verb a point that it was making if you do it over and over and over again, there are you wouldn't let that would I know I wouldn't like that. You know why cuz you're freaking stalking me. Stop stalking me. So I really like what you're saying. They're little
There is a different channel so you can call you can email you can so she can refer all of those are great Vehicles you can text to do it and that's huge soap in your example to recapture point up. It's not a numbers game is really saying you don't call a hundred contacts. You actually call a hell of a lot less just call them more often cross multiple channels that the Long Way short of it and then that one and then and you going to go back and forth throughout the week and it both different groups, but it's two of you got it, right. You got the principal right like that point you're making there two different groups stay in my keys. I'm a target of head of sales and marketing well to Davis point the first couple days. I'm going to hit the head of sales and then I might break on hitting the head of marketing and then give them a Break by the head of sales. So the idea or saunas different buyers in your cycle is brilliant. It's totally brilliant and you should know this folks who are the people who are there by or influence or champion?
Your purchase that's how you break it up into different buckets of that goes training. We did all this work. This is a little too but I'll just throw in right eye turn on everything for a solid week and then I put them on the phone and it was cricket for 5 hours because they were calling the leaves that they had bought from the provider that they said were qualified doubleverify, but it was wrong number bad number guys, not there any more companies closed down. So just like this attempt it if we had seen what we have time is you will be fuel-cell even if the numbers game or if you're not doing the numbers game you'll still fail if you haven't yet. You don't have a very qualified to list.
That's what you want to have a very qualified list. You want to pay somebody not the sales people who want to pay somebody else in the ministrator. Somebody else. The cells people's time is precious. Do not put a Salesman to spend hours.
Getting wrong numbers have some else do that division of Labor's when I call it. Will you forgot that principled but have them do it. Then you put a qualified real verified list were you know, the name of the contact that's key. Cuz then you can use that one main thing. I talked about a call for Bob cuz you know the owner or the CFO who ever you know, Bob is the guy he's there still there. It's verified and that's a new user use this counter tuitive. It's not enough using principal and you can dramatically increase your contacts. So this is such a podcast we agree with everything you just said for example at vanillasoft, you know, we use zoom info geek whatever you want to Suna Lee comes in whether it is a list that we pulled. This is our target audience Orton in Bali to fill out a form they all go through Zoom info and those who get cleanse by Zoom info then get flipped over to sell those who Zoomin who cannot when we flip over to a human being who physically try
The research my LinkedIn website whatever and if they can clean them that he would be in put them over to the sales rep. I want to see them if they mark them as know Bob isn't here anymore. It gets rejected and it goes back to the human being to say who is Bob's replacement. And so we got she got Warm Bodies combined with technology making sure the date is clean so that my very expensive sales count is not doing that right? I'm here folks. Go bro. You book a million dollar a bottle David Walter David. What's the best way to reach you?
A LinkedIn, of course. I'm giving a book away a physical book just everybody who wants it at get book offer.com. So if you go there you can it's a shipping and handling but you get all kinds of videos and training stuff for free we do that so you can go to Amazon and buy it. I've got the audio book The ebook got it all and the print book or you go to get book offer.com and connected with me, and then like I have all these extra stuff you get my friends. It's all about the pursuit of happiness. This is my good friend David Walter. He is the best-selling author of The Million Dollar Tree, but I am not a best-selling author I suck. But this my friends is the inside inside sales Shelbyville. Talk to you next week or we do it. All again. In the meantime. Have a good one. Will talk to you soon.
Thank you for listening to another episode of the inside inside sales podcast with your host Daryl frail.
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