Voice Over: Hey there, product lovers. Welcome to the Product Love Podcast, hosted by Eric Bodak co- founder and chief evangelist of Pendo and super fan of all things product. Product Love is the place for real insights into the world of crafting products as Eric interviews founders, product leaders, venture capitalists, authors, and more. So let's dive in now with today's Product Love Podcast.

Eric Boduch: Welcome lovers of product. We are here again with Adam Brotman for part two, and we're going to focus today to talking a lot about digital transformation. So let's kick that off. I think digital transformation, if anything, has accelerated because of the pandemic, because of this move to remote work. Adam, tell me about digital transformation, what it means now that the world is so dramatically changed over the last 15 months.

Adam Brotman: Yeah. Because it is more important than ever, although it's been kind of a... Digital transformation is one of those terms that is kind of a... I don't know, it's not cliche, but it's kind of a buzz word that has been used for at least 10 years. And I actually, it's funny that you're asking about it because for whatever reason, maybe because I'm getting older, I actually am starting to develop at least a playbook for it in my head. I think the first thing I would tell you is there is no playbook for it. And that's really true because I think before I even get to the first thing that I would say that somebody should think about in digital transformation is that you have to understand your business and your customer and your industry, but really your business and your customer. I mean, like at Starbucks, and I think we talked about this in our prior session, there was no shortcut for me learning about Starbucks and learning about the customer experience and the business they were in and really understanding what made it tick. What made the customer care about the business? How did the customer think about the brand and what made the business tick? So it's still being customer- centered, but there's just no shortcut for understanding that because I think ultimately that's the context that should drive everything for digital transformation. But the thing that I'd say to start, if you were literally going to make a checklist for," Okay, let's do a digital transformation on this business." It's almost like let's do an ERP implementation, as if there was such a thing, but let's just do it. The first thing you do is you got to check your mindset. Are you digital first? Again, another cliche term, but are you literally thinking about the business from the perspective of," I am going to think about the digital ecosystem and I'm going to think about my digital relationship with my customer as my primary relationship with my customer." And I don't feel like unless you take that mindset leap and have a digital first mindset to drive the rest of the things I'm about to mention, I think you're going to end up with a bolt- on strategy. I think otherwise you're going to end up going like," Oh, I'm going to do a digital transformation and I'm going to do a bunch of different digital projects and then I'm going to bolt onto my core business." And you're going to be disappointed inaudible thing. So the first thing you got to do is shift your mindset, be digital first. And then the next thing you do is you kind of go through the list in your head of some other major check boxes. Like what are my digital platforms? Do I have all of my digital platforms in place? What are they? There is a checklist for it, like in the restaurant space, for example, I'll just pick on that since it's kind of the one I'm the most close to. It's going to be my point of sale system, my online ordering capabilities, do I have a loyalty platform? How am I thinking about third- party marketplaces like DoorDash and Uber Eats and the like. My website, my mobile app. So, those are my digital platforms basically. And it's like," Hey, do I have them?" First of all, are they integrated with one another? And are they a great experience? So you're sort of thinking about that. The next time you're thinking about is digital operations. Like," All right, well, I've got all these platforms, hopefully they're connected to one another, hopefully they're a great experience for the customer." But what could really make it not a great experience for the customer is if I don't have my operations of my business really tuned in and adjusted for the fact that I'm digital first and I have all these platforms as opposed to almost being annoyed by them. Oh yeah, we do this stuff in the analog world, and then we have this digital add- on and we're sort of tolerating it. If you're doing that and your operations haven't fully adjusted, that's a problem. And then thirdly, I'd say there's this whole shift around customer growth and customer activation that you're going to want to take on because what's going to happen is, if you've done these things I just mentioned around digital platforms that are integrated with great experiences. And you've got your digital operations, I'll call it, in place your customer... If you do all that and that's a mouthful. That's a lot, we can unpack this in a second, if you want. If you do all that, you're going to get a lot of great customer engagement. I mean, you already are. You're already in the age of the pandemic, like we talked about last time, you're going to have this high digitization rate. But if you have your act together, like I just said, that digitization rate is going to accelerate a significant inaudible produce a bunch of data. And most restaurant operators, even retailers, they're not tech companies. And so they're not sort of used to thinking about data in the way that tech companies are. But if you think about what tech companies do with data, it's like their fuel. I'm talking about Amazon, Facebook, Google. Data for these companies allows them to activate, in their case, their user base. But I'll call it customers here, their customer base, activate them, target them, personalize to them, frankly get a bunch of insights around their business that they can then use to sort of understand how to better engage with their customers. And so what you have... And that's the beginning of what I always call the digital flywheel. So you've got all those digital platforms and then, it produces all this data from engagement. And then if you're good at understanding how to use data, you can really activate and grow your customer base and that's the flywheel. And then of course that gives you better engagement because you're more targeted, which in and of itself is going to improve engagement. And now the stuff just starts feeding on itself and it creates internal momentum. So from a digital transformation perspective, I know I just kind of rambled on, but that is the formula in my mind.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. You mentioned if we want to unpack that in a second, I think we do. Do you want to dig into those components? I mean, there's so many ways we can go, but let's start with that.

Adam Brotman: Sure. I would say the first place I would dig in is in the area of the experiences themselves not being broken, like I said. So what I mean by broken is that... And you got to really think about this for a second. If you're engaging with a brand primarily through a website or a mobile app for a moment, let's just talk about that, you're digital first or you're thinking my primary engagement platform is my website or my mobile app. If that experience isn't... If I can't earn and redeem my loyalty points, if I can't use a coupon code you've sent me, if I can do one thing on the website, but not on the mobile app or vice versa, or frankly, even in the store. Because I mentioned, one of the platforms is the point of sale system. So, if I don't have, I'll call it equal capabilities that I expect to have because as a customer, I shouldn't have to worry about whether I'm on one platform or the other to be able to do what I want to do, then that's a broken experience. And so you just don't want it. It literally can... You can break the whole flywheel if you have broken experiences. The other thing I'd say, too, is if you just have a shitty design, that's a broken experience and people don't think about that. And you know it when you see it, what is a shitty design compared to a broken experience? Well, I mean, we've all been on websites that are... I mean, it used to be that not being mobile optimized, properly mobile optimized, was my biggest pet peeve. I think that was the cardinal sin of crappy design. Now pretty much everybody for the most part has figured that out, but not necessarily. And now it gets to just the flow, the flow of the interactions on the website, et cetera. So, just, I'll kind of pause there, but I just feel like you want to have great experiences, which means they're integrated and means you've got good design and that you're not discriminating across one touchpoint versus the other.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. Yeah. And another thing you mentioned, too, was just kind of putting out what I would describe as a thin veneer of digital on top of analog systems. Do you see that a lot or do you think that companies are really embraced being digital first and really understanding at the enterprise level, we're not talking about startups now, but at the enterprise level, have they really embraced that digital first movement?

Adam Brotman: Not necessarily yet, although they want to. I would say that's one thing... Someone asked me that question the other day, similar to your question. They said," Do retailers and restaurant operators get this, Adam? Is this a big leap for them?" And the answer is they get it. Most of them, some of them get it tremendously, so don't get me wrong, get it better than I do. But I would say for the most part, what I'm finding is that it's... They get it intellectually, but they haven't yet really gone through that digital first mindset. The biggest example, I think I gave this example before, but that I would say that I find is that if you're operating a chain of retail stores or restaurants and you're omni- channel nowadays by definition, if you're retail, you have e- commerce. If you're a restaurant you've got pick up and delivery. So you're an omni- channel retailer, in either case, but you've got your chain of stores and you're constantly thinking about like," Oh, I've got these X hundreds of stores or X dozens of stores, and I've got my digital business." And then, a lot of times you'll see them lump their digital business together, but really digital needs to be unpacked. Like Chipotle reported yesterday, who's doing a fantastic job by the way. Chipotle reported that 50% of their revenue in the last quarter was digital. 50, 5-0. And I think they reported over 20 million loyalty members, but you got to unpack that. I haven't read the report in detail. It just came out, I think yesterday, but generally speaking it's about half of that 50%. So I call it nearly 25% is coming... Well, I don't know the percentages. I don't want to speak for Chipotle, but the point is about half of it is delivery. And I don't know how much of the delivery is happening on their app and their website versus on the DoorDash or Uber Eats or whatever's website. So what I mean by that is 50% is an astounding number for Chipotle. They have gone from, in the last five years, from being almost nowhere in digital to being one of the world's leading digital brands. I got to give a lot of credit to my friend, Kurt Garner, who's the head of technology and digital over at Chipotle. And he's as smart as they get, and they're just doing it right, but you've got to unpack 50% digital. Well, how much of that was on their website? How much of that was on their mobile app? How much of that was being powered on a white label basis by an Uber Eats or DoorDash, but was still on their website or mobile app? How much of that wasn't even their revenue directly. They only got indirect revenue from it because it was actually orders that were transacted on the third party marketplaces. So you got to break that down and the other thing you got to think about, too, is if somebody comes into the store and buys with their credit card, waits in line, buys with the credit card on the POS, but then scans their app to earn loyalty points in that process. I think many people, many brands would call that, and I would agree with this, we call that a digital transaction, although it just had a digital component to it. So what I mean is you've got to really break those things down, but anyways, so let's just say you got 50% digital or you got 20% digital or whatever the number is as a brand with a lot of stores back to your question about do people get it? What I find interesting when I talk to restaurant and retail leaders, they still talk about it being like," Oh, I've got my store revenue and I've got my digital revenue." Let's call it. And as if it's two things, and then a lot of times what I'll say to them is like," Well, I went to your website or went your mobile app and I found it lacking for this reason or that reason to me, why aren't you doing this or that?" And what you'll hear a lot, is" It's just really expensive or that's really hard." I mean, you're talking about to do a proper mobile or web experience in the consumer brand space is hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars to do right. So you're not a year. So you're not... It's not cheap. It's not for the faint of heart. And then what I hear from them a lot is like," Ah, it's a big investment, I'm okay with the way it is." And I say," Really, well, this is..." When I hear that it's not a digital first leap because I'm like," Well, let me get this straight, you have X number of hundreds of stores and you spend all this money, you spend literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars developing each store or each restaurant. But you just told me that a third of your business or more is going through what you would call one, quote unquote store, meaning digital. And yet you let it go." So they'd be horrified if one of their stores actually had a bad experience, the first thing they'd do is go remodel and they'll fix it, go improve the operations. And so I do feel like even though they get it intellectually, I still think the old muscles are still there and we got to get that digital first mindset to be more front of mind. I think with a lot of the brands I talked and they want that, they get that like," Oh yeah, you're right." They're there, but they're not all the way there.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, I think too about... Now I'm going to put my investor hat on a little bit, right? And for all the Robinhood or public investors out there, started thinking about who wins in some of these industries, right? If you're going... If you want to make a bet on someone who sells coffee, is it going to be the person, the company that's doing digital the best? Starbucks seems to be the obvious choice there. Or if you want to invest in someone in the Chipotle kind of niche, right? Is it going to be Chipotle because of what they're doing with digital? And I start thinking more and more that we, as investors, could see outside returns by betting in people that are digital first that really get that, that are driving those experiences because those experiences feel like the future.

Adam Brotman: Yeah, no doubt. I would give you one asterix though, to put on that crosstalk. Since you wear your hedge fund manager, investor hat, one asterix for your thesis, you just came up with, which is, it doesn't matter how good your digital is if your product isn't any good or your service isn't any good. So, literally somebody could run circles around Starbucks or Chipotle, but they would fail. And their stock would not appreciate, in my opinion, my humble opinion, if their food didn't taste good, if it wasn't high quality. And if the values of the company, this is really important, if the values of the company didn't match yours. So don't... It's not just the food and the service and the experiences, but it's the values of the company are really important. People won't buy from a company as much as they naturally would, if they feel like the company is unethical or doesn't give back to the community, or isn't an integrity based company. So, what I'm getting at is there's more than just digital that matters. And you could have the best digital and still fail if you don't get those other things right.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. That raises a good point because it seems obvious with the value of the product to some extent, right? If you're going to a coffee place and they have a great digital experience, but the coffee sucks, well it really doesn't matter, right? You're not going to want to go back. But the other aspect of what you talked about that I think a lot of people that have been in the industry for a long time don't necessarily know how much it's shifted is the values of the company and how much that impacts, especially the younger generation. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because I've run into people that are like," Oh, blah, blah, blah, just stay out of politics." And we've had the Georgia votes and then those kinds of things have been recent and you hear some of that but you also talk to consumers they're like," No, no, it's really, really important that whoever I'm spending my money with has values that I respect."

Adam Brotman: Yeah. And it's a tricky topic because it is important. It matters a lot. And you have to remember that not all of your customers are going to think the same. So there's moments to be... First of all, you need to be aware of that. You need to respect diversity of thought and opinion, but also be brave enough as a brand to stick to your values and put them out there and know that that might upset some of your customers. So there's a way to do it. In other words, you don't need to be arrogant about it. You should be humble about it, but you should be strong. And I think that's the best way to thread the needle. There's no avoiding the fact that for some of the most important topics of our time, I'm going to put politics aside sorry, I'm just going to say topics... Well, it's impossible, all of these things enter into politics, but topics around the climate emergency or racism, or you could go on and on, they all kind of end up seeping into politics. And you have to be aware of it. There's no safe space where everybody's going to agree with you, but you do have to... My personal opinion is you need to be authentic. You need to authentically stick up for what you believe in. And then I think if you do that... First of all, there's no avoiding doing that. And I think you should do that as a company. And I think as a company, you have a responsibility to stand up and be an important part of your community and not just be a bystander and act like that's not your role. I think the role of a, particularly a public company, but I think the role of a company to try to make a positive change in their community and make a difference is... We're past the point where people would argue that. I think it doesn't make it any less, I'll call it, difficult at times to do it as a brand. And I would say one thing I learned in Starbucks, I felt like Starbucks did a pretty good job of this. No one's perfect, I learned a lot from how I watched my colleagues at Starbucks navigate this. And what I noticed at Starbucks is that, and they still do this, is that they stood up for what they believed in, but they also were aware that not everyone may be there. Not all of their customers are there and you have to respect that, too. So it doesn't mean you don't stand up for what you believe in, but you don't do it in a way that's arrogant or finger wagging, so to speak.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. But this is new, right? I mean, if I look at brands 10, 15 years ago, I felt like community values, in general, weren't necessarily at the level of importance they seem to be today. Would you agree that this is new? It's a new trend and it feels like a trend, not just a blip, too, right?

Adam Brotman: Yeah. No, it's not a blip. I mean, in fact, I think it's getting to be more the case as opposed to less the case. And I got the impression that it started... I'm not an expert in this field, but I would say by paying attention to it, I noticed that there was all this talk in 2013 and'14, around that time about millennials. It was all millennial, this millennial that, they were this really important demographic generation that was, I think at the time, kind of in their mid- twenties, late twenties, they were kind of starting to get some earning power. And I think I'm getting the dates right, I'm close. But the point is they were and are in a very important demographic and brands were studying millennials. And now there's... I can never get it right. There's after- millennials or gen Y or something like that. I can't remember. But the point is that... So start with millennials to your point. It was about that time, so that's less than 10 years ago, that one of the first things we would all learn, both at Starbucks and at J Crew. I remember we had these very fancy consultants would come and teach us about different generational demographics and they'd be," Oh yeah, the millennials, they're super values conscious, and you need to be aware of that and they will want to do business with companies whose values they... They'll vote with their feet in that regard." And I think that's only become more the case. And yeah, I guess I'm not a history student in this area. So I guess maybe us gen Xers and boomers weren't as much like that, maybe because... I don't know why. Maybe because you're right, it was not a thing that people talked about.

Eric Boduch: There seemed like more of a separation between business and politics and even inaudible Mitch McConnell, I believe it was, I'll hopefully attribute that correctly, kind of pushed back on corporations, it was stay in your lane, right? Paraphrasing, but there is no lane anymore. The values in business and corporations are now intertwined.

Adam Brotman: Yeah, exactly. Although you do have to wonder, I got to believe that corporations have been, at least for a while, have been giving money to politicians. So I don't know what the definition of staying in your lane is, but I know what you mean. I agree. I think it is definitely progressed and it's become more and more of a thing generationally more and more of a thing, you're right. I mean, definitely, I mean, I care about it, but I guarantee you, if you talk to my younger sister, she cares about it more and I'm guessing that my daughter is going to... It'll be like water to fish to her, like," Oh yeah, I would never buy from a company I don't understand." Almost like," I'll research their values and their corporate social responsibility and their diversity capabilities and scores." I mean, environmental impact. I think it's going to become yeah, right. The consumer is becoming savvier. Actually, I'm making this up, but it maybe is a captain obvious statement. The one thing that millennials and then younger from that are incredibly good at is growing up as almost not quite digital natives, but sort of, and the more digital native you are, the more you realize through the internet, that information is readily available. So it was a lot harder when I grew up, there was no internet when I grew up. So what was I going to do to research the values of a company? I'm aging, I'm dating myself or whatever, but I would have had to go to the library or something, right?

Eric Boduch: Yeah.

Adam Brotman: I don't even know where would I have gone? Checked out microfiche or something on one of them. I'm not kidding you, I'm old enough to remember if you wanted to do a research report or homework, you'd go to the library and you'd read books and do microfiche. Do you remember microfiche?

Eric Boduch: Yeah, I do. I do. I remember having to use crosstalk.

Adam Brotman: The little thing and you'd spin it. Versus the millennials were probably the first generation that realized, oh. Even when they were 12 years old, they could just be like,"Oh, I'm just going to pull my phone." Maybe not 12 years old. Maybe when they were in high school, whenever the iPhone came out in 2007, they went super mainstream in 2009, 2010. And I'm guessing that generation started getting... Where were they in 2010? They were probably... I don't know. I'm making this up and imagine if you were a 16 year old in 2010. I don't know, that may not even be millennial, but the point is you, all of a sudden, could answer any question you wanted. And even before that, the internet, right? So 1995, you got Google in 2003. So, you can go... It's not just mobile. I think mobile put it on steroids where you could just be sitting, having a dinner conversation with your parents, probably not paying attention to your parents at the dinner conversation. And you're wondering about something or you're shopping and you realize I'm one click away from finding out more about the brand and you're going to care about that stuff. And you're going... So you can be much more informed and I think it's a more informed consumer and more than it was when I was growing up. And I think... But it doesn't exclude people like you and me and everybody. And it doesn't matter where you are on the political spectrum. I mean, everybody has a legitimate point of view and has a right to their point of view and brands have to understand that, have to understand that as a brand, regardless of where you sit in the political spectrum, your customers are going to be able to understand where you're coming from and it's going to be important to them.

Eric Boduch: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And I always feel like I've been digital first person and maybe that's just because of my affinity for computer science from a young age, right? So I feel like in some ways I address things more like a millennial than a gen Xer, which I am. Which has kind of given me a weird perspective from both sides. But the other thing I wanted to dig into, too, you've touched on was data, right? And I think it's interesting from a Starbucks story, too. I live really close to Starbucks now in my current house. So, every morning I ended up walking there, grabbing a coffee for me and my wife, coming back home. And then as we've gotten kind of into spring and summer here in Raleigh, North Carolina, I find myself often going over there in the afternoon, right? So, it used to be most of the time, almost every day in the morning, when I'm in Raleigh, I'm going to Starbucks that's right by my house during the pandemic because it's walking and there's lots of reasons. I'm ordering and Starbucks reinforces that habit through some of their personalization. What I've noticed now, thinking of this power of data and now technology, is Starbucks seems to... They've noticed that every once in a while, I'll go in the afternoon. And they seem to be pushing me offers to try to get me to go in the afternoon more often, create this habit, is that the power of data? Is that what I'm seeing? I'm inaudible at Starbucks lines, they see me going every once in a while, now they want to make it a daily routine like my morning is.

Adam Brotman: Correct. That's exactly what's happening. So in fact, you're touching on what the company that I'm the CEO of right now, it's called Brightloom. And Brightloom, what we are doing at Brightloom is exactly what you're saying. We're enabling any brand... And I'll talk about what Starbucks is doing, because I think there's nobody better at it than they are. But what they're doing is they're using data to be really smart about how they message you and what kind of product recommendations and offers are they're recommending for you and sending to you. And that's what Brightloom does, Brightloom realizes what Starbucks does in that arena, it's not totally dissimilar to what Amazon does, is they are very good at using data science and predictive models to really actually predict what you're likely to do if given a certain nudge or a certain offer. And they're using your behavior and your transaction behavior to sort of run that through data science and models to predict it. And it's really hard to do, but Brightloom, what we decided to do is realize, well, why don't we create a software as a service platform for other brands, so they can do the same thing with their customer base that Starbucks and Amazon are doing. And here's how it works, essentially, everybody that's digitally engaging with a brand generally has a couple characteristics. They've probably opted in to receive marketing, not always, but probably have opted into receive marketing messages from the brand, particularly if they're a loyalty member, because who's going to join a loyalty program and then not want to receive special offers and messages from a brand? That's part of the reason you joined the loyalty program. So you're going to have this super high opt- in rate, you've got a super high digital engagement rate, and you have a really good trail of data on every time you go and transact with that and engage with that company because you are digitized, you've opted in to receive marketing. You've probably downloaded an app. You're engaging with the website. So now the brand has all this great data on what you're doing and what they can do is they can, through Brightloom or on their own, they can run it through essentially data science, predictive models, which means basically mathematical models that take every single customer's transactions and essentially can predict on a pretty good basis what every customer is likely to do next or not do next or where they have like a proclivity to do something. And then that gives the brand a perfect opportunity to also to break all the customers down into, okay, here's all the customers that seem to be starting to come in the afternoon. Oh, okay, well, that's interesting. What would the model suggest we do there? Oh, we should incentivize them to come one or two more times in the afternoon. They're already starting to come in the afternoon. We know that's a day part that they're open to. Let's push them along that journey. And we wouldn't necessarily do that if they've never come in the afternoon because that doesn't make sense for them. So you can actually figure out where you can look at that behavior and figure out where you should push people along. By the same token, if someone stopped coming to you ever, you ought to give them a bigger offer to try and to jolt them out of a state of inactivity. If someone's coming to a lot already, but never buys food and only buys coffee, maybe you should offer them, suggest that they buy food. And maybe you should give them a discount on food at first to kind of encourage them to get into a habit to do that. So these are all data- driven, kind of model- driven marketing strategies, which to me is the most powerful marketing strategy. You go from just being kind of a functional marketer to being a growth marketer.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. Now, I mean, because now we're talking way beyond... A lot of the things, when we think personalization, I think like," Hey, I want to get offers that to me, that are men's clothing as opposed to women's clothing." Right? But now we're getting to the point where we're looking at personalization based on behavior, not on characteristics. And that's really powerful.

Adam Brotman: You hit the nail on the head, what you just described... I mean, we talk about it all the time at Brightloom, but you hit the nail on the head. It's behavioral data to try and influence the behavior versus demographic or characteristics. And that's... You're exactly right. And I would even say, there are a lot of tools in the market where I'll pick a plugin for my company, Brightloom. There are a lot of tools in the marketplace that let you create segments using data. But what you just said is an interesting point, how sophisticated are those segments? Are they my lapsed customers, my best customers, my men versus my women customers, my east coast versus my west coast customers. Yeah. Okay. Or are you really looking at all of the transaction data and running it through predictive models and then putting all the customers into micro- cohorts and then individually sending them messages that are going to be super relevant to them and super right sized in terms of offers, that's the state- of- the- art and it is... I mean, I don't know, I'm making up these terms, but in last couple of weeks we've been talking about growth marketing versus functional marketing. Anybody can kind of function and put people into some segments and do some AB testing and whatever, but we're excited to be disrupting the industry by bringing this sort of data science as a service to the table.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. No, I think that's really powerful. I mean, I think the beginning of the pandemic, I was trying to order from my favorite coffee shop, which wasn't Starbucks, right? But then it just became, because of their digital issue... And it was a local coffee shop, right? Because of their issues with digital, it just became increasingly hard. Sometimes they're closed, it's weird things with the pandemic, weird things with digital. There was a Starbucks a block and a half from my house, I was working out of my house. It's really easy. But at the same time now I think of this local coffee shop, right? That has one store, maybe two stores, right? If they're using something like Brightloom, right? They could get the power of Starbucks out of that.

Adam Brotman: That's right.

Eric Boduch: Is that the idea? I mean, that crosstalk.

Adam Brotman: It is, that's exactly... That's exactly right. And at Brightloom we have customers... We have some big customers, of course, we have a lot of big customers, but we have a lot of small customers. We developed this as a cloud- based software as a service. So you could have just a couple of coffee shops and you've got 10, 20, 000 customers in your total email or digital database. And yeah, you could suddenly have Starbucks level, Amazon and Starbucks level, personalized marketing. And the other thing I'd say, too, and you talked about digital transformation, I will say this and it's important to mention, which is that it's not just that they're going to have the tool that they couldn't otherwise do on their own. It's a mindset shift. What gets me so excited about what we're doing at Brightloom is that I love talking to everyone of our customers and saying," Listen, you don't have to..." It's like what we just said at the beginning of this segment," You don't have to settle for being anything less than a digital transformation master, you can master that craft." Let's go, let's talk about the checklist, let's talk about how you're going to create your own flywheel and Brightloom can be one piece of that. But I love talking to them about the mindset shift and strategy shift.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, that's awesome. Well, I know this has been a lot of fun, Adam, we're running out of time again. So let's get to two final questions about you. First, what's your favorite product?

Adam Brotman: I'd say besides the Starbucks app, my favorite product is the Peloton app. And I could say the Peloton, but the reason why I'm so attracted to that product and that company, frankly, but you asked about a product, is we have a Peloton, but I started wanting to do different types of exercise than just ride the bike. And I started using the Peloton app to try a different exercise machine or just try running outside or whatever. And they have digital... They have live classes, they've got digital on demand. They have equipment that you can sort of have connected devices to and when I wear my Apple watch and I'm doing a Peloton... I mean, this is a cool thing, you can do a Peloton on demand run. So a run, which is really designed to work with the Peloton treadmill, but you don't have to use a Peloton treadmill. You can take the class on demand, get on an elliptical that's sitting in your garage. This is literally what I do. Wearing your Apple watch, which is Bluetooth connected to the app. So none of it's connected to the elliptical that I'm using, but my heart rate is actually showing up on my screen on my phone, which is doing the class. And so, these guys are... They've done such a great job of branching out to be a connected device, but you don't have to be connected device. Connected to their own machines, but also connected to other devices like my Apple watch. And it's not just bicycling, it's a multitude of activities and it's all being tracked. They have data on everything I'm doing. They're sending... By the way, they're doing a great job of sending me push notifications and emails that are telling me how I've been doing and reminding me to get my butt into a class because I'm going to break my streak or whatever. So I just think it's a great product.

Eric Boduch: Yeah. I mean, I love the product. Big fan. Well, one final question, three words to describe yourself.

Adam Brotman: I'd say, I'm curious. I like to learn. I think I'm doing my best when I'm learning. And I think I'm at my worst when I'm not. So I like to learn. So the number one thing I would say is I'm curious. The other word I'd like to say is I'm genuine. I really believe that I am transparent and kind of wear my personality and what I'm thinking on my sleeve as you probably can tell. And then I think along with being genuine, I think I'm a good person and empathetic, but I think the... Maybe the third thing is I'm pretty energetic and passionate. When I get into stuff, I really get into it.

Eric Boduch: Well, thanks, Adam. This is awesome. Really appreciate you spending the time.

Adam Brotman: You're welcome. Thanks for having me and let's do it again someday.